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355 No compression on cylinder 2

Discussion in '348/355' started by redwedge, Jul 6, 2023.

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  1. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    462
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    #1 redwedge, Jul 6, 2023
    Pulled my 355 out of storage, where it has sat for 6 years because reasons. Had a local, well-regarded indie go through her with a fine tooth comb and ended up with a £15k bill for cam belts & tensioner bearings, springs, damper rebuild, fuel pump, battery, battery tray, drop links, tie rods, CV boots, tyres, engine & gearbox mounts, alternator, various seals and gaskets, ARB bushes, etc etc etc. I actually thought the bill was very reasonable given the amount of work done. Anyway, 500 miles later, the car dropped a cylinder. Shop has diagnosed no compression on cylinder 2, likely due to being driven (not very far) with a cracked manifold several years ago. They can take the head off and replace the problematic exhaust valves and, if required, even the liner and rings, without having to touch the bottom end.

    Question for the group: what else should I have them look at while they're in there?
     
    cavlino likes this.
  2. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    756
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    #2 jjtjr, Jul 6, 2023
    Ouch! Sorry to hear about this, but how did the shop determine that the exhaust valve is damaged? Scope? What year is the car? If the heads are coming off then a thorough check of the valve guides would be in order.
     
  3. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    462
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    #3 redwedge, Jul 6, 2023
    Yes, I assume scope. Car is a 1997, so should, I think, have the later, harder valve guides.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    #4 Rifledriver, Jul 6, 2023
    1997 will have the early junk guides. A burned valve is determined by a leak down test.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  5. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    462
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    #5 redwedge, Jul 6, 2023
    Called the shop - they confirmed that they did a leak down test.

    @Rifledriver Would my car really have made it to 52k miles without issue on the bronze valve guides?
     
    cavlino likes this.
  6. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
    1,449
    Los Angeles
    #6 Targatime, Jul 6, 2023
    If you've got 52k miles on the engine and one cylinder with guides so worn you have lost compression, there is basically zero chance the guides aren't worn in the other cylinders. So I would mentally prepare yourself for dropping the engine, removing the heads, and having all the guides done.
     
    jjtjr likes this.
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #7 Rifledriver, Jul 6, 2023
    Why not?
     
  8. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    756
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    #8 jjtjr, Jul 6, 2023
    And by NO compression, does this mean a zero reading on a compression tester? Or is it just low?
     
    cavlino likes this.
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,546
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    #9 yelcab, Jul 7, 2023
    You might need to replace that one liner as well.
     
  10. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    Eric
    #10 Ferrarium, Jul 7, 2023
    You can remove liners without pressing out from underneath? Good to know.
     
  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #11 yelcab, Jul 7, 2023
    It's not super easy but it can be done if you make a simple tool for the slide hammer.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  12. 355OXO

    355OXO Karting

    Apr 16, 2006
    204
    UK
    Full Name:
    Simon
    #12 355OXO, Jul 8, 2023
    I had a similer problem, you need to change all valves and possible some lifters, doing just one is not an option really to do it correctly . I would budget £15k +, as the heads will need new guides and skimming.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  13. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    462
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    #13 redwedge, Jul 9, 2023
    Thanks Simon. It's with KHPC who have done the job a dozen times without issue, so I'm sure they'll change whatever needs changing. £15k on top of the £15k it cost to get her rolling again will severely test my love for the car though!
     
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  14. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Steve C
    #14 redwedge, Jul 9, 2023
    Because everything I've ever read on the topic suggests that they either fail early or not at all.
     
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  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #15 Rifledriver, Jul 9, 2023
    Because everything you have read was on a web site like this and written by at best someone whose experience was limited to one car...theirs.


    Some of us have actual experience.
     
    [email protected] likes this.
  16. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    462
    London
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    Steve C
    #16 redwedge, Jul 9, 2023
    My understanding of the bronze valve guide issue is that there's no consensus as to whether the material itself was unsuitable, the problematic valve guides were made from substandard material, or were manufactured incorrectly. I am quite open to the possibility that I'm wrong and always happy to be educated by people with more experience and knowledge. I find it strange that I'm apparently being berated for reading this website by someone posting on this website.

    I'm not asking for a short-cut, and my car is currently sitting in a well-respected garage. I was asking if there's anything else that it would be sensible to look at while the engine is in pieces.
     
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  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #17 Rifledriver, Jul 9, 2023
    Nothing wrong with reading anything. Who is berating you?

    The guides were junk. They were great 1950's technology whose time had come and gone. Technology had given automakers the ability to make more power than in the past and with power comes heat. The threshold of the guides ability to survive the heat had been passed and they wore out prematurely. Many alloys of bronze available, some are still very suitable for that purpose but the alloy chosen by Ferrari was way past its sell by date.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  18. 355OXO

    355OXO Karting

    Apr 16, 2006
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    #18 355OXO, Jul 9, 2023
    Mine had done 40K before it happened.
     
    redwedge likes this.
  19. 355OXO

    355OXO Karting

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    #19 355OXO, Jul 9, 2023
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  20. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
    1,449
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    #20 Targatime, Jul 9, 2023
    Is there a guide material you recommend? My '98 has steel but is there a bronze alloy even better, when the time comes?
     
  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #21 Rifledriver, Jul 9, 2023
    Never was steel. Iron maybe but in a 98? So they were already replaced? It will be a long time before they are needed again.

    I am unaware of a bronze that will out last iron.
     
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  22. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    #22 Targatime, Jul 9, 2023
    It's a late '98, well past the (alleged) switchover in guide material. It's never been apart, so my assumption is they're made of whatever Ferrari used in the later engines.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  23. cavlino

    cavlino Formula 3

    Mar 6, 2002
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    #23 cavlino, Jul 10, 2023
    Thanks, that answers the question I was going to ask which is once its fixed correctly will it be fixed for a long time.
     
  24. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,721
    #24 Mitch Alsup, Jul 10, 2023
    In my opinion, if you are "that far" into the engine, take it back as close to zero miles as possible.
     
  25. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #25 yelcab, Jul 10, 2023
    What do you mean zero miles?
     
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