812 Replacement Rumors

Don't re-write history. All positive driving habits were offset with a comment about the looks. It was not received well as a lustful Ferrari in that regard. Brilliant refinement but not attractive enough. Clearly a statement about Manzoni style which wandered (s) around.

 

So sorry to have shocked you.
Hopefully you will overcome this soon. Just buy an F12.

Marcel Massini

 

..........if you believe the factory.......
That says it all.
Don't be a slave.

Marcel Massini

 

The rear design. Even after many years I just don't like it. Yes, as the driver, I cannot see it, I know.
And the electric four wheel steering, not good. Totally different on the F12 TDF which is just sensational.
Plus the 812 SF is way too heavy and fat. And I don't care if I have 20 hp more or less.
And the numbers built, there's probably now 9'000 units of the 812 SF (all variants) or even more, nothing really rare and exclusive anymore.
Just my 2 cents, of course.

Marcel Massini

 

Thank you, Marcel. Fair enough critique.

The tdf is a masterpiece on so many levels but at a cost of about 3 times an 812SF at current prices. Imho, the 812SF is a significant step forward dynamically from the base F12, even with the somewhat artificial 4-wheel electronic steering. Every time I drive our 1997 993TT, I am reminded of the purity of mechanical / hydraulic linkages.

 

My guess is that the F167 could be revolutionary from a conceptual point of view. Maybe that explains the big price increase.
In addition to the beautiful design, I believe that its proportions will be really different.
I believe it will be even lower in height than the 812, as the new models are coming in lower lately (296 lower than the F8, Roma lower than the Portofino). Couple that with an even longer hood, an even shorter and wider rear end, and you have truly incredible proportions.
The expected addition of the Multimatic suspension can lead to dynamics unimaginable for a car with a front mid-engine.
If this suspension is "miraculous" in the Purosangue, which is a tall and heavy vehicle, much more so in a sports car in the 1.25m height range.
Therefore, even though it remains a GT, it will possibly move further into the supercar/sportscar category.
So I bet the F167 will go far beyond a nice design and ~30hp more.

 

Concept sound exciting from a visual view point. If it stays non hybrid, takes a good drop in weight with a good update to handling, braking etc and topped it off with a token 15 - 30hp. We could have a real special car.

 

Not bothered by numbers built but this perfectly sums it up for me.. only Ferrari to my eyes has got worse looking over time.

 

There are regulations to follow, and it is not possible to do what has been done before with almost no constraints.
In this context, it is very good to end this V12 line in this way. We needed something simple and modern at the same time, and it succeeded. I am certain that on the road, in the middle of traffic, the car will have a crazy presence because the eye will capture the overall shape before the details, which is the opposite of the 812.
As for the coke bottle effect, it is up to you to judge because it is a modern treatment which is not comparable to that of a 288

 

Nope, I don’t really get the love of F12 over 812. I prefer the look of 812 and much much prefer the drive (TDF excepted which is better in both departments compared to the standard car - although it’s temperament would be too much for the standard car).

I never liked the uterus, the side with its air bridge looked half-hearted (so why bother) and the waist line is too boring and gives too much high-riding bulk to the long front. We are of course talking degrees here because they are both beautiful Ferraris with a V12 engine up front. But after driving numerous F12s, including on track, I never wanted to buy one. With the 812, we’ve done it three times.

I think steering is probably the best asset the F12 has over the 812 but I don’t really dislike the 812 even for that.

Agreed, the rear is not the 812s best feature but I don’t rate it below the F12’s odd-looking uterus shape. I love the way the waist of the 812 flows down into the low-riding front giving a much more aggressive stance than for the F12. That lower front is important when driving because it just feels sportier even before you start the engine. The sculpting is aero-driven (and therefore somewhat silly, as with the F12) but since Ferrari is a race-team inspired car manufacturer, isn’t that what we all buy into?

Competizione is better at the rear and lifts the look in the same way the TDF did. I preferred the look of the Comp to the TDF at launch but the pendulum has begun to swing a bit more towards the TDF for me lately (a car we don’t own but is without doubt a masterpiece). I probably put them similar.

If there’s anywhere the F12 shades the 812, it’s not the rear but the front. The odd inlets by the headlight (not horrible but still a bit odd) and the wider gaping mouth are a bit unsubtle and confirm the aggressive theme of the car. Whereas F12 is just nice there.

Each to their own and I know some feel the opposite, which is of course fair enough.

 

This is exactly what I was referring to when I spoke of the possible "different proportions" of the F167. In addition to the design, the shape of the car is very important in the final result, and I believe that in F167 it will be something incredible.

The Roma, for example, I think is a beautiful and clean design, but the proportions could be better. So much so that I considered the mule of the F167 beautiful, which had the Roma design, with more striking proportions.

About the "coke bottle shape", I didn't quite understand, but if it's about the shape of the car, I think it would be something compared to a GTO Series II, 275 GTB, or 365 GTB/4 Daytona. Low, short rear and rather long hood.

Any information about the launch month?

 

Speaking of steering. Put 100 mi on the 812 yesterday. 90 on the Vanquish today.

Hydraulic steering...........

 

“Coke bottle styling is an automotive body design with a narrow center surrounded by flaring fenders which bears a general resemblance to a Coca-Cola classic glass contour bottle deign.“ (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coke_bottle_styling)
I made a little image montage to explain this. Although, to my knowledge, the design of a coke bottle has never been mentioned in Italian automotive design, some Ferrari models feature this design, including the famous 250 GTO.
Of course, the F167 will be a modern interpretation of it, but the contrast between the straight lines in the middle and the rear with the fenders and the short tail will be impressive.

 

Excellent explanation and illustration. Thank you!

I thought it had something to do with the short rear end, but I didn't know it also had the characteristic shape of the fender contour.

 

The coke bottle styling can also bee seen on F1 cars but here you must look from above. I made a quick rendering with the coke bottle and my beloved F1 car from 1990, the Ferrari 641/2 (but it started with the 640 in 1989). Of course, the design of the 640/641 is also reminiscent of a drop of water.
Source:

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— Twitter API (@user) date

 

Coke bottle was also subliminally a design based on an idealized woman’s figure, which obviously works on cars as well.

 

And of course, it goes without saying, the "Zero pods" concept is the unCola. And it shows......

 

Are you referring to the car, or making a gender declaration?

 

i have posted this before, please take it as tongue in cheek humor but this is what my brain sees:

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it seems to have a shorter wheel base AND a shorter front hood actually. High likelihood it has a version of the revolutionary suspension from Purosangue and that will be a game changer.

 

Hasn't the "last V12" ben done to death by now.
I doubt this generation will be the last. Ferrari will do their utmost best to keep the V12; in whatever form possible.
All this talk about "the last ...." does is warrant a higher pricing.

About styling, would live if the F167 has cues of the KC23; which is very agressibve, but also oh so clean.
it's a very bold and balsy design.

 

This. I have owned the 599 and F12 before my 812. Looks are subjective, but my GS with non dark wheels and cuio is sublime. Driving the F12 was a bit scarier, but the 812 is ridiculously good. And that engine and exhaust note…

 

funny. I’d like to reply with an amusing retort but I had better not attempt that!

 

And mine:

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Except, that back cover is only ornamental on the 812c (despite Ferrari pretending those are actual aero/vortex generator devices, which, according to their patent, they are not), however, that creature is purposeful in its design...

maybe this is a better comparison
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