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550 Driver’s Seat Stuck

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Giallo 550, Aug 4, 2023.

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  1. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #1 Giallo 550, Aug 4, 2023
    I went to detail the interior of the car today and moved the seats back completely to take out the mats and vacuum. Once I was done, I went to move the seats forward to vacuum behind and I can’t move the driver’s side seat at all.

    So far, I’ve done handstands on the floor to see if any wires got disconnected, had my arm under the back seat cover to press the switch by the headrest, and disconnected and reconnected the battery. Nothing.

    Right now, I turned the battery off with the disconnect switch to try to reset everything.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 fatbillybob, Aug 4, 2023
    The seat is like 8 way power. Can you recline or elevate the seat base? No = likely hit connector and disconnected but that's unlikely because the connector is so hard to pull apart. Yes= perhaps there is a limiting switch function that is now messed up. It may then require unbolting seat and removing from car so you can get into it and figure what electro-mechanical issue is messed up. We all know how ferrari parts lack robustness like the parking brake switch you have to slam handle down a couple times to get the light to turn off.
     
  3. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #3 Giallo 550, Aug 4, 2023
    Neither of the switches function at all, which is leading me to believe there might not be any electricity going to the motor.

    I did check the fuse box to see if I could locate a blown fuse, but didn’t see any labels for either seat.
     
  4. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    #4 308 GTB, Aug 4, 2023
    Jim,

    Look for the Control Unit under the passenger's side footrest...


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    The 30 amp fuse in the #26 position is for the driver's seat.

    Barry
     
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  5. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #5 Giallo 550, Aug 4, 2023
  6. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #6 Giallo 550, Aug 4, 2023
    Oh wait. I think I need to unscrew that carpeted panel to the right.
     
  7. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #7 Giallo 550, Aug 4, 2023
    Unfortunately, the fuse is fine. Even swapped it with the replacement it came with and no difference.
     
  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #8 Qavion, Aug 4, 2023
    There seems to be some kind of limit switch in the seat back:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/550-seats-wont-move-back.150294/

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    Can you try pulling on the top of the seat back whilst operating the forward control?

    I was going to suggest putting power directly on the motor, but there seems to be more than one motor for fore/aft movement (?)

    The workshop manual and parts diagrams are no help. The WSM talks of front and rear "swinging" motors and a "transfer" motor.
     
  9. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #9 Giallo 550, Aug 4, 2023
    Thanks for responding. I tried toying around with the mechanism in the seat back, but it had no effect. For the sake of comparison, on the other seat, even with the switch held down, it still moves forward, just not backward.
     
  10. Qavion

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    #10 Qavion, Aug 4, 2023
    Makes sense. That's how I originally thought it would work, but then the other thread confused me.
     
  11. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #11 Giallo 550, Aug 5, 2023
    Took it out this morning with a couple of pillows behind my back, so at least it’s drivable. It’s up for inspection this month, so I’ll see if my mechanic can find anything wrong before taking anything apart. I’m dreading taking it to the dealership.
     
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  12. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #12 Qavion, Aug 5, 2023
    Would anyone have a photo of the underside of a 550 seat? I'm trying to figure out which motor is which. There is a wiring diagram in the WSM, but it doesn't tell you what does what.
     
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  13. ///Mink

    ///Mink Formula Junior
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    #13 ///Mink, Aug 5, 2023
    Picked this one off of eBay:


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  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #14 Qavion, Aug 5, 2023
    Excellent. Thanks! At least now I know where the relays, connectors and (most of the) motors are.

    Depending on height clearance, you could probably even jumper one of the relays to bypass the switches (if you had a switch problem).

    Currently working on a coloured wiring diagram...
     
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  15. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 fatbillybob, Aug 5, 2023
    Relays! Wack them with back of screwdriver and try seat. See if one is stuck.sometimes get lucky
     
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  16. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    #16 Aerosurfer, Aug 5, 2023
    Does it have the same fuse setup under the seat as the 456 does?
     
  17. Qavion

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    #17 Qavion, Aug 5, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
    I can't even see fuses in the diagram (unless they are part of the motors). Each motor has a symbol I'm not familiar with.

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    I'm not sure what the control panel arrow symbols are supposed to represent in the wiring diagram. Are they showing the toggled position rather than the normal (non-pushed position)?

    "B+" seems to represent the switch used when moving the seat forward. It doesn't seem like you could short out the relays to move the motor in a particular direction. You still need power from the control switches.

    The fore-aft relay should have green/black and white/green wires on it (as well as the common black & yellow/black wires).
     
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  18. Qavion

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    #18 Qavion, Aug 5, 2023
    To help with diagnostics, you could:

    1) swap relays
    2) measure the voltages on the relay sockets with the switches pushed/unpushed.

    Does the photo show the front of the seat at the top? Are the relays at the front of the seat?
     
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  19. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #19 Giallo 550, Aug 6, 2023
    Thanks for all this. I did not realize there were fuses UNDER the seat as well as in the fuse box. Perhaps I should try to take a look at them? Are they located in those four black boxes toward the front of the seat?
     
  20. Qavion

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    #20 Qavion, Aug 6, 2023
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  21. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #21 Giallo 550, Aug 7, 2023
    Tried it today. Unfortunately, no dice.
     
  22. Qavion

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    #22 Qavion, Aug 7, 2023
    Can you hear the motors attempting to move the seat or are all the controls completely dead?

    Do you have a boroscope to check under the seat? You can get android/apple phone boroscope attachments fairly cheaply these days.

    If it's a relay issue, you can simply interchange relays. However, if none of your controls are working, then there is no point interchanging relays. It just sounds like the main power plug has come loose.

    To check for power, you could pull the relays and look for voltage on pin 87a on all the relay sockets

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    Put the black probe on the chassis. If you get a voltage, see if that changes if you toggle the seat switches (this will help identify which relay controls which axis).

    If no volts, toggle the seat aft switch at the same time to see if you get voltage on any of the relays. This should also tell you which relay is which.
     
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  23. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Formula 3

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    #23 Giallo 550, Aug 7, 2023
    Thanks for all of this. The motors are silent and all of the controls are completely dead.

    Which one is the main power plug? Everything looks like its connected, but I have no problem double checking that. Everything was working perfectly fine up until I put the seat back! Might be worth mentioning it has Monza seats? Pretty sure the electronics would be the same regardless.
     
  24. Qavion

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    #24 Qavion, Aug 7, 2023
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  25. Qavion

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    #25 Qavion, Aug 7, 2023
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