Scuderia Ferrari 2023

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I think Albon is much more likely. And one I'd also love to see there.

 

All very good points and as you say the buck stopped with Barnard, but as you say it was a R&D department and the innovations he brought into F1 were copied by al the teams and are still in place today.

I can recommend the book "The Perfect Car" for an insight into the chaos at Ferrari HQ and the factory, one snippet of info that confirms the treachery in Maranello was the semi automatic gearbox and the F639. On a routine visit Barnard discovered through Villadelprat that they were modifying his car for a manual gearbox and as there was no way to install it into the design of the car or indeed get the linkage through the V12 engine, they were going to fit it externally along the outside of the car, in a special cover and housing for the gear change!

I dont know enough about SF simulator technology in Italy to comment on but again its a lack of foresight from the team to encompass new ideas.

LdM biggest mistake was to not make Brawn technical director and team principal, instead he chose the all Italian route.with disastrous results ever since.

You also have to keep in mind the ground work for the Byrne / Brawn success was due to Barnard years and his UK based training programme for upcoming engineers.

One thing I agree entirely with you is the need to develop and the addition of a few small flaps isnt good enough, if i was in charge I would develop this car in season and on the race track. Tell both drivers its going to be a year at least in development work and dont expect any results during a race weekend. The tyres are the biggest issue and Pirelli changing the design at will doesnt help a team to go in the right direction.

 

I think Albon makes more sense. I rate norris higher but 2 alphas in a team doesn't work. That said I rate albon higher than Sainz as well.

 

The Hair Apparent?

 

Valid points. I do struggle with the reasoning of 37m per season, for the aforementioned reasons. Unless Ferrari is afraid of not being able to attract significant drivers in case Leclerc walks, which at the moment is actually a valid concern.

It's not as if this money if say they got an Albon and Ricciardo for peanuts so they can stick the money saved in the car, it doesn't work like that anymore.

I just hope Ferrari can actually deliver something at some point soon.

 

Planet F1 shows 24mil per season for Charles. Still way overpaid for a few wins and not titles. FA is under paid. Charles is not providing that type of value at all. Not even close. He is approaching 'journeyman' status and is hardly dominating Sainz consistently.

Via - Planet F1:

There are a small handful of drivers, who are not World Champions, who are claiming remuneration packages taking them into the double-digit millions.

Amongst them are Ferrari’s Charles Leclerc, who will pocket $24 million from the Scuderia in 2023. Alongside him, Carlos Sainz will take home $12 million in 2023.

Valtteri Bottas, who left Mercedes to join Alfa Romeo on a long-term deal at the end of 2021, is on $10 million a year, while Max Verstappen’s teammate Sergio Perez will be paid $10 million in 2023.

Out of all the double-digit earners, the youngest is also yet to win his first F1 race: Lando Norris is on a reported $20 million salary at McLaren for 2023.

 

Pia... Hes a good shoe..

 

I write the same in another thread. Leclerc hasn't shown any supremacy at Ferrari this year.
If I was John Elkann, I wouldn't pay so much a driver who cannot distance itself from his #2.
Leclerc is only 7 pts ahead of Sainz in the WDC at the moment.
Sainz is less skilled, but has more race awareness than Leclerc, IMO.

 

If Leclerc was driving for another team with the same results, he would get the same attention as Norris.
He is in the spotlight and talked about simply because he is at Ferrari, IMO.
His performances this year are very average.

 

The thing is, who else can Ferrari seriously convince to come drive for them right now, who has room for growth?

Max is never leaving Red Bull. Perez is good, but he's not consistent. Russel is a good, but he's staying at Mercedes. Hamilton and Alonso would rather chew glass than go into the pressure cooker at Ferrari, plus they're not getting any younger. Norris is overrated. Too soon to know if Piastri has the right stuff.

As far as potential young talent, I'd of the opinion that Ferrari would be wise to look at Alex Palou from Indycar. Kid has great raw pace and race craft, and he *wants* to drive at a team like Ferrari.

Leclerc is the best driver for Ferrari outside of Russel and Max. Yes, his race craft is immature still, but he has raw pace.

Jenson Button was one of those drivers that aged like wine. It took him years to click with a combination, but when it happened, he was good. Rubens and Massa are also good examples of drivers who got better after many seasons of mistakes.

The worst thing for Leclerc or Ferrari could do is part ways, then one watch the other suddenly hit the jackpot in grand prix wins. Alonso and Vettel can tell you how that feels.

 

Todt was TP and he handled the political side of things for years. He and Brawn were effectively co-team principles.

I don't give Barnard any credit for the success at Ferrari that followed his departure. Brawn and Byrne were proven winners at Benneton, and didn't need any help from his team when they overhauled F310 into what it became.

The biggest issue at Ferrari are that the technical department and the race operations department are not on the same page, and haven't been in years. The race operations side fail to extract the maximum from the car. Often, they're totally lost on the proper set-up. To make matters worse, the race engineers have zero chemistry with the drivers, and routinely the radio is chaos.

The good news is that Vasseur seems to recognize this problem, and that outside talent is required. Loic Serra has been the main guy for race operations at Mercedes for years. He's been the guy that helped them find straight line speed in 21' with his suspension black magic. His role is essentially the middleman between the technical department and race operations at Mercedes, figuring out the best set-up approach to a weekend. He's a good score for Ferrari for sure, even if he alone won't solve all their problems.

It's also good to see the team actually *gasp* develop their car this year, and bring serious packages like Mercedes and Red Bull for once, instead of sitting around counting how much money the other teams are allegedly spending.

Ferrari have some ways to go to win a title, but they're not as far off as some hysterically act. They're the 3rd best team, and they require far less steps to start beating Red Bull than anybody behind them.

 

Brawn was not co team principal at all

You have to remember that JB was working with 1/3rd scale models in a wind tunnel at various places but mainly at British Aerospace whereby his time was limited. Ferrari's road car wind tunnel was no good for F1 as it had no rolling road and was outdated. Other teams like Williams, Mc Laren and Benetton had their own new facilities so were way ahead in aero work / development. He openly admits his aero guy John Tyler got the numbers wrong with the introduction of the side impact surrounds which messed up the air flow into the engine but Byrne and Co had the ultra new facility in Italy in 1997 to compete with the others, this was instigated by Barnard, without it they would never have gone to work there.

When you say the F310 was "overhauled" - to what extent? Please explain the modifications that were made?

 

Brawn very much involved in the over all team management of Ferrari, right along with Todt. The former got more and more involved in the political side of things with time, as Todt faded into the background of things.

Anyways, the F310b was very different from the F310. Byrne changed the front wing and sidepod area to be more similar to the Williams approach. It also helped that the V10 packing was done better, and had 30HP more. The transmission was also overhauled from a 6-speed to a 7-speed.

To be fair, the latter were quality control issues and engine department issues at Ferrari, and mostly out of Barnard's control. But, my point is that it takes a strong force to whip the Ferrari factory into shape, and not just anybody can do it. Brawn and Todt changed Ferrari's culture and began demanding only perfection from the factory, and they watched everything like hawks. That's what you have to do to win. You can't sit in an office in the UK and get things done in Italy. It's been tried before, and it doesn't work.

 

Ferrari moving their operations to the UK is just fantasy. It would require an ungodly amount of money and logistics, take years to ready the facilities, and then take even further years to see a possible ROI.

 

Who cares about the junior series? What matters is how you do when you get in the big seat, and Palou has raw pace like Montoya did.

Leclerc is miles better than Norris. I keep hearing about how the latter is going to set the world on fire, but the results are not impressive, even in a McLaren. With Leclerc there are tons poles, some wins, and many races where we saw him hang right up there with Max, so there's no question about his abilities.

George Russel has some impressive race craft, imho. He'd be a good sign for sure, but he ain't moving to Ferrari. Ever.

 

The rumored deal would be 2+3 years for +185 million euros
'25 & '26 are guaranteed seasons and '27, '28, '29 the optional years, with Leclerc having control over if he wants to use the options

The pay structure is rumored to be progessive with last year around 50 million.
Could be something like:
30 mil, 30 mil, 35 mil, 40 mil, 50 mil.

Basically Ferrari trying to convince Leclerc to stay the optional years for the big bucks.

If Leclerc would run down this rumored contract until end of 2029, he would have spent a whole decade driving for the Scuderia. And probably made close to 300 million euros in driver salary while doing it

 

I don't agree fully: Montoya wasn't weak actually, but he made life unbearable for his teams in the pits, motorhomes, etc...by his behaviour with his family, etc...
Patrick Head said that Mansell's behavior was "very manageable" compared to Montoya's. Which says a lot, really...
And J-P.M didn't get along with Ron Dennis at all.
Think about it, Kimi and Montoya in the same team, what a stark contrast of characters...
When Formula One lost him, it lost a great driver. And what a character: the guy was certainly not "corporate bland".

Rgds

 

Charles is not miles better than any team mate or contemporary at all. 5th year and not showing what I consider growth. He makes double what his team mate does in salary and is only 7 points difference between the 2. Carlos brings points for far less pay.

Sorry but Norris is not only keeping Piastri back a touch but gets more out of the car than is possible at times. Charles is no Norris so far. I like Charles but less than 2 years ago. He talks too much and simply needs to drive, win if possible and lead the team a bit. He does not lead anything.

Russell has been put back in his complaining box this year by LH. Russell is not in the same league as Norris now at all. I think Russell has slipped back a touch.
Piastri with a podium and an early in his career, first win will probably surprise many.

For me the top drivers not counting Max - and in order for me: FA, LH, Norris/Piastri then others maybe Charles next. Close is Sainz, further down is Russell, Checo, Bottas, Albon etc. Of course the 2nd half could see all of this reversed once we start racing again LOL

Will card is Ricci. Just needs the better car. Clearly had no issues with the RB 19 and was stated as on front row pace. Yes it was a test but he set that in just a few laps and Horner was on the phone to Marko. Thats pace!