I'm guessing since you are in the UK you go to the Ring often? As you will know, it's as close to real road driving as it gets on a track, the Ring matters in the real world. And many guys that own Ferrari's that also do a lot track days can and could afford to run them, but the truth is they don't because the cars just can't pound around all day like the should be able to do. Ferrari also have a long history of bringing "tweaked" cars that are not the same as what the customers get for their claimed "track times", weirdly they also always bring their own Ferrari technicians for support.
718 GTS is a lovely thing . I got my Gt4RS a few months back, and it's shocking how much speed it can carry and how consistent it is. I love my Speciale, but its not even close to the GT4RS on track in every measurable way.
So are you saying you think the F40 looks better without a wing? Eye of the beholder of course.. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Not really, as I don't like the Nordschleife. As you said it does resemble real roads, but that's the problems for me. I prefer real tracks. I hate the two carousel corners also, which do not resemble real roads all! In my experience, that's plainly untrue. Never had a problem with an F340, nor with a 599. A friend of mine lost the brakes on his 911 and had a huge crash though. A myth perpetuated by CH, in pursuit of fame. Firstly, all manufacturers send mechanics and engineers to adjust the cars in group testing (yes Porsche too). Secondly, Ferrari's numbers have been verified by customer cars more on multiple occasions.
I used to be a huge fan of the F40, when it came out, due to the numbers it achieved. Driving one though is a disappointing experience, compared to modern supercars.
And how many people outside of Porsche factory drivers have duplicated any of the Ring times put down by the GT cars? Hint: The word starts with an "N" and end in a "E"
Huh? You were upset it didn’t have air conditioned seats, or something? What did you expect from the car?
Define "windows" Like a floor to ceiling window? But, as you've admitted, no one really matches the Porsche factory times at the Ring, which makes those times essentially vaporware.
Long time lurker, first post. I have daily driven 992 GT3 (the latest model generation) for over 2 years and 30000+ km now, including winter and snow. I also have 296 GTS (non-AF) on order and have driven it on 3 occasions - road and wet track in Italy and extended test drive on my local roads, so perhaps I can provide some perspective. 992 GT3 is way more uncompromising than "normal" 911. There is huge amount of road and mechanical noise, suspension is high quality, but very stiff. Engine needs to be between 5000-9000 RPM to pull strongly and sound good (below that, it pulls cleanly, just relatively slowly). Great on track, unsurprisingly, with mechanical, serious, analogue feel. In conclusion, for most people (including me, as I've started to understand), it is too uncomfortable to drive daily on the street. GT3 RS, with no boot and 50% stiffer suspension, is further step on still. 296 GTS felt both more comfortable and more fun to drive. There is less noise inside (though by no means quiet), huge power and engine response with hybrid is addictive and electronics work very hard behind the scenes to make for an agile car that is a joy to drive. The suspension comfort on rough roads borders on witchcraft. Porsche-comparison wise (with power and price points obviously different), 296 is Carrera GTS and VS might be GT3. A few corrections to the above lap times (all on 20.832 m lap): 6:54.99 is the latest generation GT3 RS independently tested time (same driver as 296 GTB 6:58.70 lap). The same driver also did 6:59.42 with 992 GT3 with Manthey Performance kit and 7:04.74 with stock 992 GT3. Porsche factory test drivers are about 5 seconds faster than Christian Gebhardt. For example, official Porsche lap for 992 GT3 RS is 6:49.328 and 6:43.300 for 991.2 Manthey GT2 RS (not 6:83.835, as stated above, that is on a 20.600 km lap). So 296 GTB is no slouch, even on a Ring, a track it is not optimized for, and will match or beat 992 GT3 RS on many tracks. I would expect the VS to be clearly faster still, I guess we will find out when it is released in a year or two
The GT3 has 510bhp, the 296GTB has 820bhp. The Porsche should not be getting anyway near a car with 310bhp more. 992 GT3 rides much better when you put on PS4s tires on it ( as does the Cayman GT4RS).
When did i admit anything? You are wrong, go look for yourself, their plenty of Ring laps on YouTube by amateur Porsche customers getting within seconds of the factory car times, in fact some go faster than the Official times, like this guy did( Official time - Porsche 911 GT2 RS MR - 6.43.300 BTG. BTGAlex - Porsche GT2RS MR - 06:41.871 BTG - CUP 2R tires, Manthey Racing trackday 17.10 2022.) He also has done consistent 6:45's with a 95kg (210lbs) passenger onboard.
You do realize this bridge-to-gantry time is missing 1 mile of back straight that the official Manthey lap includes? So that is around 7 minute lap in reality. Still crazy fast, but nowhere close to the official Porsche test driver lap.
Wider tires, less weight, track-focused set up, optimized on the Ring. Still 6 seconds slower over a (long) lap.
Wrong. Both times i listed above are BTG... The the Official GT2 RS MR did a 6:38.835 (full lap). Its Official BTG time was 6:43.300. In the video i posted above BTGAlex did 06:41.871 BTG in a customer GT2 RS MR.
Nope. Go and watch the official MR video and compare. 6:43.300 is the official full 20.8 km lap. 6:38.835 is also taken on the same lap, just omits approx 200 m of track. BTG is about 19.2 km, omitting 1,6 km (1 mile) of back straight where you can see the car go beyond 300 km/h for extended period of time on the official lap.
6:49.328 ( 20,832m) - Porsche 911 GT3 RS (992.1) - Jörg Bergmeister 6:58.70 ( 20,832m) - Ferrari 296 GTB - Christian Gebhardt
The Official Porsche time starts at the Nordschleife start/finish line. The BTGAlex time starts at the "bridge"..
Best comparisons are when times are established by the same driver on the same track. For those not aware, https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/296-gts-af-tops-french-sport-auto-track-times.680529/ mentions a good reference for the 296 vs GT3 / GT3RS performance on track.
I've never had the fortune of driving an F40, but from speaking with those that have, they have echoed the same sentiment. Sometimes it is better to never meet your heroes.
