0854 Back to Original Coupe

How much did Jim pay for it?

 

I am a rank amateur when it comes to the topic of classic Ferraris so apologies for my simple and rather innocent question.

Would having a classiche certification from the factory help this cars cause or not? Does that confer any more credibility to what it is, or has become?

 

30M and change is closer to what I thought it would go for. Way below estimate. There you have it.

 

$6m I believe

 

I wasn't far off.

 

The car had been quietly for sale in the months prior to the auction. It was a late consignment.

 

Good day All,

Here is the link:

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/28011/lot/67P/1967-ferrari-412p-berlinettachassis-no-0854engine-no-0854/

Cheers,

Sam

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Whilst it didn't really "fall out of bed" it did make about $10m down on what it was supposed to achieve.

The P4 is arguably the most beautiful Ferrari. What holds it back against a GTO (or SWB) is it is essentially the genesis of the modern Le Mans machine.

It is all but unusable on the public highway with a "nod" to road car usability.

You can go touring with the missus in a 250. You can go to the pub in a D type or a Blower Bentley.

I suspect it will end up as a static piece in a collection.

 

It's actually a great question.
I think it would have helped.

There are many here, myself included, who have been critical of Classiche.
Two common reasons were; 1) the very obvious money grab aspect of it and 2) the early administration of the program.

This is not to be critical of anyone wanting, seeking or holding the certification on their car but it most certainly IS meant to be critical of the corporation that carries on today, bearing the name of its founder.
The initial fee aside, the fact that Ferrari seeks 'rentier' profits- a subscription if you will- doesn't make them unique.
Rather, it groups them with the rest of the chiselers who seek to charge you in perpetuity for what is essentially a one-time service.

With respect to the early administration of the program, much of that has been discussed here before and I think in fairness to Ferrari, they have dramatically improved the administration of Classiche.

Now as to your question, I'm of the opinion that 0854 just sold for less than what a 412P might bring at auction in ideal circumstances.

In the past 0854 was owned and raced in period (after Maranello Concessionaires) by David Piper.
Piper had a deserved reputation as a serious racer and that of course meant winning.
TTBOMK, Pipes is the only one who ever reduced the frontal area of a 250 GTO (4491GT) in order to reduce drag.
He also left no stone unturned in racing/developing his series of 60's sports prototypes, including 0854.
It could be very soundly argued that sending the car to Classiche and going over everything with a fine-tooth comb would go a long way to quieting any questions a potential buyer might have about the nature of 0854 and its originality at the end of its competition career.
The seller undertook a multi-year restoration in house with his own guys and some work farmed out- and documented it all here. Great if the buyer has followed along on Fchat, but the broader market has to include folks for whom a 'name' restoration, if not Classiche, would hold more perceived value.
Lastly, the the whole "l'affaire '0846'" didn't help the seller's prospects at all.
To any reasonable person who studies the situation, they could be forgiven for having doubts in light of the fact that his 'sister' car isn't at all what he wants it to be.

The seller himself understands the value of a restoration in Italy, by the firms and surviving families of those who were a part of the ecosystem back when the real cars were made at/for Ferrari. Although his 166 SC doesn't' bear the certification, he sent it directly to the same people that Ferrari would have subbed the work out to.

All that to say, my past criticism of the program notwithstanding, I think there are a number of reasons why a Classiche certification could have been a big plus in the eyes of many potential buyers of this recently completed auction.

 

Does not a classiche though essentially wipe away all the essense that a competition car has actually achieved since it left Ferrari by them effectively doing a "factory reset" and banishing the unique elements race cars gain by evolving during their competition life warts and all.

This car had a significant "privateer life" that would have to be lost in order to achieve the red book.

Jims done alright with it, Piper thrashed it to within an inch of its life, will the next owner want to whitewash that all out by sending it back to Ferrari for one?

 

No.

The Red Book Ferrari Classiche standard is to how a Ferrari last left the factory in its original Ferrari specification. The White Book Ferrari Classiche standard is for Ferraris of Historic Interest such as the specification that they were raced in period, which would match your desired specification for 0854. When Piper rebuilt the charred remains of 0854 after the 1969 fire he would have used many non original/non authentic parts under the skin which are still in the car today. It was also very different latterly with Piper, who raced it with a cut rear end (including the chassis) and full barchetta GRP bodies. Nobody would want 412 P 0854 like that in comparison to its beautiful full berlinetta original alloy body.

Mr Glickenhaus wanted to rebuild the car to how it was at the BOAC 500 in 1967 as raced by Maranello Concessionaires. He arrogantly thought he would do a better job than Ferrari Classiche. He ignorantly bodged the job as I have stated previously.

Mr Glickenhaus did do very well out of 0854. Probably made a profit of near $20 million.

I hope the new owner sends 0854 to Ferrari to get the proper authentic restoration that it deserves.

 

This pic popped up on facebook today, no doubt it has appeared on one of these 65 pages as well, but never hurts to have a historic repost
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GRP Piper body, not aluminium Fantuzzi.

 

Kyalami, the car had a collision in the pit lane if I recall correctly. Irrespective the fact that this thread exists is amazing

 

Hit a marshal apparently!

 

...and Ferrari will send it out to four different expert shops to do that very work. Nothing done by Ferrari other than collect $$$.

 

Not to mention, this money crab/collecting doesn't necessarily guarantee the outcome being authentic and/or correctly done, no matter how many different color books it may include.

 

Not so very different to how 0854 was built in period, by experts, as you correctly said, and unlike how it has been inauthentically and inaccurately restored to how it was at the 1967 BOAC 500 by Mr Glickenhaus. Vaccari and Bosi built the chassis, who may need to make a new one, Fantuzzi built the body....

 

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That Ferrari refuse to Classiche certify certain restored cars, regardless of how correct they have been restored, by certain restorers such as Motion Products and others, is the ultimate money grab as they are purposely crippling some of these restorers by filtering as many cars through the factory/Italy as possible. I am somewhat surprised the Classiche seal of approval became such a big thing as it certainly was not for decades. It has been at least somewhat common knowledge that private restorers, historians (such as the gentlemen posting here) and mechanics have always known more about vintage Ferrari's than the factory.... It's easy to certify yourself as the expert when you own the brand and make the rules, but an expert that does not one make.

 

so waste of money getting such a book?
this was my meaning since long time - only money collecting for ferrari

so in my eyes a marcel massini report is much more valuable

 

As long as it's done correctly I have never cared. This is likely one of those preferential issues. Does Ferrari's little red or white book make you sleep better with X car? I'm sure it does for some.

 

I am not a great fan of Classiche generally, but in certain situations it can be the best method for an owner seeking to maximize value.

 

but not for me

 

To keep or to resell?