Ferrari Sport Cars Thread | Page 28 | FerrariChat

Ferrari Sport Cars Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Aardy, Feb 12, 2023.

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  1. detective

    detective Karting

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    There is some confusion creeping in here. I thought we had established that the photo is 1953 Pescara but the hand-written message refers to the the 1952 10 hours Messini.
     
  2. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Yes, still convinced Bjoern’s pic really shows Pescara 1953...
     
  3. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    30 August 1953, ADAC 1000 km Rennen, Nürburgring, Germany

    Sixth round of the 1953 World Sportscar Championship

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    #1 Vignale Spider 340 MM 0286AM Alberto Ascari/Giuseppe Farina Scuderia Ferrari 1st
    #2 Pinin Farina Berlinetta 375 MM 0322AM Mike Hawthorn/Luigi Villoresi Scuderia Ferrari DNS
    #3 Vignale Spider 625 TF 0306TF Umberto Maglioli/Piero Carini/Paolo Marzotto Scuderia Ferrari DNS
    #50 Pinin Farina Cabriolet 212 Inter 0235EU Riccardo Vignolo/Maurice Gatsonides 9
    #68 Pinin Farina Berlinetta 166 MM/53 0346M Kurt Zeller/Walter Zeller DNF
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    The book where you will find a colored pic of #3. Yes, no proof it was 0306TF but I will talk about the 4 cylinders cars after Casablanca race at the end of the year.
     
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  4. Bjoern Schmidt

    Bjoern Schmidt Karting

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    Guys, please don't get confused by the hand written text on the picture. The car in the picture definitely shows the Ferrari with r#30 which was driven by Mancini/Serena in 1953 at Pescara.

    At the 1st Dieci Ore Notturna Messinese (to be Swiss precise...) on 23./24. August 1952, Gazzabini/Ferraguti drove a Ferrari 212E with r#12, not r#30.

    I can only speculate that Sergio Ferraguti, who signed the picture, drove the very same car at Messina in 1952 as well as at Pescara in 1953. But I have never seen a photo of his 1952 Messina entry. Does anybody out here have such a photo of Ferraguti's Ferrari from 1952?

    Best regards

    Bjoern
     
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  5. Bjoern Schmidt

    Bjoern Schmidt Karting

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    Hi Kare,

    why "scrap pieces in the back yard"?

    Scuderia Marzotto got a new chassis of a 1950 Ferrari 166 MM type on 21st July 1950, stamped "024MB". Confirmed by Ferrari.

    On this new chassis (and definitely not on a 212 Export chassis), Scuderia Marzotto built the Uovo at Fontana. In the beginning they surely might have had the idea to build it on one of the 2 newly ordered 212 Export chassis (0084E and 0086E) but as you already mentioned, the delivery of both chassis where much delayed.

    What Scuderia Marzotto used for the Uovo coming from 0084E had been the engine and gearbox only.

    The "scrap pieces", more or less the front and rear section of the old Touring body of 024MB, where used for the obsolete 212 Export chassis 0084E instead.

    Best regards

    Bjoern
     
  6. detective

    detective Karting

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    I'm looking forward to December and Casablanca unless something unusual crops up at a race before then. In the meantime can we invent some code for the three 4 cylinder cars so that we know which one we are referring to. I suggest this because it looks like there will never be any agreement on which car had which chassis number when it left the factory.
    With regard to #3 at Nurburgring does the colour picture in Hettler/Kunkel book show whether this car had the louvres in the lower front wings (fenders). Thanks.
     
  7. kare

    kare F1 Rookie Consultant

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    I don't exactly disagree on anything, but will have to go through everything I have before I will eventually be able to form an opinion. That will take many working hours as there are so many photos to analyze and so many notes to check.

    If body of 024MB was reused, were there any damaged portions left on the car? Past tense, as the car has been rebuilt many times during past decades, so I presume every damaged bit has now been repaired/replaced.
     
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  8. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Here is a pic of 1952 Messina #12 (0074E)...
     
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  9. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Yes, this is exactly what I had in my mind : car #1, car #2, car #3 with a lot of pictures for each car. I will come back later on the subject...
     
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  10. detective

    detective Karting

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    So the #12 car at the 1952 Messina is the Motto berlinetta 212 Export. This exact same car can be seen again at the 1954 Mille Miglia so is NOT the same as the #30 car at 1953 Pescara.
     
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  11. kare

    kare F1 Rookie Consultant

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    Worth also remembering that these cars, like all factory team cars undergoing development were using several serial numbers as a standard practise at the time (mid-1953 to early 1954 or so). In less than year they probably figured out that handling things this way quickly made things too complicated, so they started welding tags instead in cases where renumbering was necessary - and if these tags were taken off in the end we have no clue.
     
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  12. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    We have to work with the Luis Milan and Roberto Bonomi’s Vignale spyders (I will call these cars #2 and #3) to guess what happened before and after Milan and Bonomi’s ownership. The car #1 should be the one crashed by Ascari at Monza.
     
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  13. detective

    detective Karting

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    To make things easy to remember (for the older generation) and as we often refer to those drivers most associated with our knowledge of these cars could we perhaps call them "Ascari", "Milan" and "Bonomi"........pleeeeease. Or something along those lines.
     
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  14. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

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  15. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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  16. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    There was another race on 30 August 1953 : Premio Pergusa, Circuito della Cravatta, Sicilia, Italy.

    #8 was Placido (Felice refering to the 1953 Ferrari Yearbook or Pasquale) with 166 MM Touring Barchetta 0044M. Result : 5th (1st in class)
    #10 was Luigi Bordonaro with 212 Export Touring Barchetta 0158ED. Result : 2nd
    #34 (just a guess : the pic above doesn't show #14) was Guido Mancini with 212 Export Fontana spyder 0086E. Result : 8th

    Of course, the pic in the 1953 Ferrari Yearbook with Felice Placido and 166 MM Touring Barchetta #172 can't show Pergusa. Must be Coppa Nissena or another italian race in 1953...

    Two interesting links :
    https://ennadalmiopuntodivista.wordpress.com/2016/12/01/il-giro-della-cravatta/
    https://www.siciliamotori.it/2020/07/16/premio-pergusa-e-la-prima-grande-gara-ennese-degli-anni-50/

    Library :
    https://bookdealer.it/libro/9788898245345/Una cravatta da corsa. Il Premio Pergusa sul Circuito della Cravatta
     
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  17. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    27-30 August 1953 Stella Alpina, Dolomiti, Italy

    The only pic of a Ferrari I found was 166 MM/53 Vignale Spyder 0278M #236 with Enrico Sterzi (result unkown).


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    The 1953 Ferrari yearbook lists Franco Cornacchia as winner but the real winner was Salvatore Ammendola with his beautiful Lancia Aurelia B20 GT #242.


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    Can't resist showing you this fantastic pic of the second overall : Enrico Anselmi and his Lancia Aurelia B20 GT #246
    Happy Italians !! :)
     
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  18. ERault

    ERault Karting

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    In addition, Piotti had a Ferrari entry but did not start due to some mechanical failure. He shared Carlo (not Guido) Mancini’s car to 8th place, the car being slowed down by troubles with the throttle linkage.
     
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  19. ERault

    ERault Karting

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    A bit more, but no photo sadly :

    Cornacchia actually placed 4th with a 3-liter Ferrari. Allazzetta was a late finisher with a 2-liter (surely 0066 M).

    Moroni DNF with a 2560cc one (presumably 0070 M ?), as did Sterzi with the car pictured above, after what was reported as a serious crash.
     
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  20. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    It seems book « Stella Alpina » published by Scuderia Trentina Storica in 2007 will be reissued this month. May be there will be more stuff inside...
     
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  21. EnzoNZ

    EnzoNZ F1 Rookie

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    I have this photo marked as Cornacchia #258 finishing 4th. 0258MM or perhaps 0292MM?

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  22. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    Great pic ! Yes, it’s the ex-0292MM renumbered to 0352MM already in July 1953 according to Marcel.
     
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  23. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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    6 September 1953 1° Gran Premio Supercortemaggiore, Merano, Italy

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    #6 Vignale Spyder 250 MM 0330MM Casimiro de Oliveira 13th
    #16 Vignale Spyder 225 S 0176ED Roberto Mières 6th
    #22 Vignale Spyder 166 MM/53 0278M Franco Cortese DNF
    #24 Touring Barchetta 225 S 0104ED Enzo Pinzero DNF
    #26 Pinin Farina Berlinetta 250 MM 0270MM Bianca Maria Piazza 10th
    #30 Abarth Spyder 166 MM/53 0262M Giulio Musitelli 7th
    #32 Vignale Spyder 166 MM/53 0314M Edoardo Lualdi 9th
    #50 Ferrari Spyder 166 MM/53 0272M Alberico Cacciari DNF
    #64 Vignale Spyder 250 MM 0332MM José A. Nogueira Pinto 3rd
    #66 Vignale Spyder 250 MM 0326MM Fernando Mascarenhas DNF
    #70 Vignale Spyder 212 Export 0182ED Gilberto Cornacchia alias "Serano" DNF
    #72 Touring Spyder 340 MM 0294AM Hans Ruesch DNF

    Winner :
    #46 Colli Spider Alfa Romeo 6C 3000 CM Juan Manuel Fangio, Scuderia Alfa Romeo

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  24. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran Consultant

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  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ Honorary

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    The Firenze plates "FI 66478" on #10 are from a Fiat. Not a Ferrari.

    Marcel Massini
     
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