0854 Back to Original Coupe

5901 was fire-saled (reasons explained earlier already) and thereby ruined the sale of 6053 coming up only a few weeks later. Keep in mind that 6053 has genuine 24 h Le Mans history and is red book certified (for those wo care), whereas 5901 has no race history whatsoever, certain original body parts replaced and was not even red book certified. The consignor of 5901 in Paris refused to accept the only genuine bid of 20 M € and wanted 23 M €. Four months later he was forced to (fire-)sell 5901 for US$ 16.5 M....... thereby killing the sale of 6053.

Marcel Massini

 

The Artcurial fire sale of 5901 was a textbook case study of exactly how NOT to sell this type of significant car. As discussed earlier, Artcurial was only concerned with recouping their past due €11 million advance, etc.

And in stark contrast with 6053, 5901 has zero period racing history, and does not have a Ferrari Classiche Red Book. And the body isn’t quite as virginal as the consignor tried to portray (i.e. Berlinetta Motorcars made some major repairs to the body back in the early-1999a after then-owner Joe Rosen had an off during a track event.

 

With all this ^^ in mind, another perspective or words one could use to summarize the 0854 “result” is that the new owner got himself seemingly a better (good ?) deal because other interested parties chickened out.

And are these “others” going to wait for another similar, but better(?) car come available and then try to outbid each other ?

 

I see your “chickening out” point, especially with such an ultra-small universe of 412 Ps and 330 P4s (and infrequency at which they come to market).

However, at today’s lofty values of well into the eight-figures for such late-Ferrari P cars, qualified buyers tend to be more circumspect, more risk averse and less brave. That’s why when an example like 0854 sells (i.e. one with some major unresolved questions and concerns), it’s important to not take its result as “market gospel” for the overall value of the model at large. That’s all I’m saying here.

 

it sounds like JG relationship with Ferrari may have cost him several million $.
is it possible JG was afraid the car would not have qualified for any certification?
then what would have been its value?

 

With a potential market this small, there's probably no such thing as "market gospel" anyways. Only good deals and bad ones. Glickenhaus made a tidy profit on the car, even if it "undersold", and whoever bought it probably think they did well - even if it takes some money to bring the car to a standard more accepted by experts and armchair pundits alike. That's how it went this time, now get ready for the next one in who knows how many years.

 

I agree and understand, but also think considering anything in "such an ultra-small universe of 412 Ps and 330 P4s" having some kind of speculative, let alone predictable(?) "market (values)" or "gospel (to such)" seems beyond silly, especially when discussed in an online forum by mostly individuals with no first hand exposure or involvement with the subject(s).

OTOH, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these same "individuals" spend as much time following/pondering what them Kardashians did/do, type of outfits Taylor Shift wears or try to guess what their favorite political figure will have for breakfast next week.

 

Having been personally involved in transactions (during the course of my career) which have included 0844, 0854 and 0858, I don’t take any personal offense or umbrage to any of the above comments.

 

I know and as I’ve commented before, I can understand those in the business of trading certain type of vehicles or other items having personal interest in their (perceived) values, but anyone without seemingly legitimate reasons (i.e. not in the process of buying/selling/speculating/etc on one or more) obsessing over such, IMO, generally just comes across like those bored housewives or teenage girls who obsess over dating habits of some two bit celebrities or what they’re wearing, etc.

 

... or some pretend-to-be-car-guys seemingly spending most or perhaps all of their awaken hours in online automotive discussion forum(s ?) obsessing over political/religious indoctrinations, including their own, and all sorts of other unrelated (irrelevant) topics.

 

You go Timo!

 

As always, fast & hard, pedal to the metal, baby !
Life's too short and "******* will never be heroes !"*.

* Quoted wisdom revealed to me by a great mentor over 30 years ago and it has been one of my life guiding principles ever since (or actually all my life, but it hadn't been put in words until then).

 

https://fb.watch/mPPggAb8je/

 

You, on one hand, and the other, are an absolutely clueless and offensive man who has contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to this thread and many others that you poke your unwanted nose in, where you again contribute nothing. Just non stop total drivel. I have asked you many times to prove anything that I post is incorrect, but you never have, because you know you can not. I, on one hand, and the other, can prove everything that I post, and do.

 

I don't recall claiming anything you posted being "incorrect", per se, but I do remember questioning some of the presented evidence and never having received answers/clarifications to them ?
So instead of continuing with accusations and personal attack drivel, how about starting with those and perhaps someday I start taking you little more seriously.
Also, as you might be aware or recall, just like you, I don't have any, let alone significant, first hand experience with any P cars, including the topic of this thread or the "other", so providing any irrefutable proof of their construction, history or originality is something I couldn't/wouldn't try to address, even if I cared or wanted to.

Signed,
one "absolutely clueless and offensive man" to another.

 

As I have said before, pot, kettle and black spring to mind here!

 

It’s remarkable how much time and effort one can put into obsessing about other’s obsessions.

 

Neither of you come off looking good here. I suggest you stick each other on ignore and move on.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Huh. The holier than thou Andrew Neurobeaker. Also clueless. ST_U.

 

I'm trying to restore the gentlemanly tone of the thread. 2 day ban, please be more amicable upon your return.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Wow (but not surprising) !!

 

You guys are funny. I'm on record as dispising Glickenhaus. But I could care less what he did to a car he owned. He could paint it Janis Joplin psychedelic for all I care. Or the new owner can do whatever he wants with the car. They are beautiful cars, but they are still cars. Gas gets injected, spark plugs fire, pistons move, crankshaft turns and noxious fumes come out the tailpipe. Just enjoy them while you can.




Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Andrew addressed the attack on himself on it’s face, but on review of miurasv’s lengthy prior moderation history it’s been determined that a longer ban is warranted. Any future attack on a moderator simply doing his job could earn even longer bans, up to permanent. For this one, 7 days.

 

To all concerned,
I am a virtual unknown in the sagas of the 2 cars in question, mostly a Dino man, and frankly I could really
give a hoot about either one, their provenance(?), the owner (mostly), or other such matters.

When I have asked a question or 2 about the myriad posts on both, which I refuse to read,
as I have better to do, and as previously stated, could give a hoot,
what bugs me, is if I ask a query about either of the LENGTHY threads, I am accused of a variety
of (nasty, but not all clearly) criticisms that I feel are unwarranted, and ofttimes that are used with wild abandon on Ferrari Chat.
Low blows, demeaning and offensive comments, do not belong here.

If these "repliers" are so sanguine about the subject matter, methinks, a spot of patience,
and less "Retribution", and not try to be a "Nemesis", ought to be used
with a touch of tolerance and kind politeness in their communications.
It is free world after all, but education ought to be #1.

Best regards,
Alberto

PS. if you find this offensive, feel free to remove

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=retribution+in+Snatch#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:086d11cc,vid:KQYLY9XPFKU

 

Quoting @miurasv and insinuating he is a wanker. 2-day ban for @TTR, and please be more amicable upon your return.

All the best,
Andrew.