Max Verstappen

Rules are not the crux of this debate how I see it. The crux of this debate is you trying to redefine the word dominant and time value. Both have always meant the same. You can't redefine dominance because Rules change. The dictionary will not change the meaning of the word whenever F1 has a rule change. Time value does not change. You can't make up your own meanings now that Max is winning in a dominant car.

 

Well said.

 

Wow.....just when I thought you were making some sense......you have now completely lost substance in this debate.

So you're telling me, rules don't play a part in ones dominance regardless of who the team is?

 

Yes rules play a part. Look at RB under the current rule change. Im trying to get you to see it doesn't change the meaning.

 

That's cool, Max hosting 3 servers for people to use the new content on today on iRacing.

 

How about this to stir the debate.... Just how dominant is the Red Bull RB19? There could be an argument it is nowhere near the likes of half a dozen Mercedes cars, or the F2002 or F2004. I know for sure people will claim Max is winning because his car is the best car ever, but I do not believe that is true at all. We look to Perez for validation of the car's dominance, and while he would still win the WDC with it, he wouldn't be sweeping the season. Dominant car, yes. Same level as the 2014-2016 Mercedes? No way.

 

Don't forget the Mclaren MP4-4....it won 15 out of 16 races.....fyi.

 

RedBull is leading constructors by over 300 points and we're not even near the end of the season. Already more than any points gap Merc had during their dominance. And that's with Perez not participating in Q3 for half of the season. I don't know why you all keep trying protect Max and continue to try and downplay this RB dominance.

 

Basically Red Bull are leading by over 300 points yet Perez hasn't even been able to get into Q3 for half the season. So you are saying it's all down to Max Verstappen, yet you don't want to actually say that Max is the big reason why RBR are dominating, or can't even say Max is just that good.

 

?
Do you get points for Q3? You only get points by racing, Perez is second in points. By a long shot. I don't understand that statement.
Perez can not make q3, and still finish 2nd. Such is the race pace of the RB. Sergio has won, podiumed multiple times. So he makes a big contribution in those points. Mathematically impossible to say its all down to Max. Again, what's so hard about saying RB is one of the most dominant cars? Max is good. No need to go to this length and lie about RB dominance to protect him.

 

You made the statement that Perez can't even get into Q3 for half a season. Should not only be pretty damn easy in a car you suggest is so dominant, but he should be qualifying P2 or P3 regularly.

Perez has finished P2 just 4 times, behind two wins. Out of 14 races, that's not very impressive. Out of the last 9 races he has only made the podium 4 times. If he is driving one of the most dominant cars of all time, he should be targeting P2 every race. But that isn't happening. Now I have been saying for years that Perez is overrated, but he proved in 2021 that he deserved a second seat at Red Bull even if there are many drivers better than him. He's certainly better than the pay drivers, better than Stroll, and likely better than Bottas too. Mid level driver at best. Even a driver as poor as Bottas was able to qualify P2 and finish P2 behind his much better teammate in several different dominant Mercedes cars.

Lastly I have already said the Red Bull is a dominant car. It helps when the rest of the competition is so tight they can steal points from each other, which dramatically has helped Perez have a strong hold in 2nd position in the WDC. Even Toto has said that if it wasn't for Max, this season would be a different story. Media people that suck on Lewis' nads like Damon Hill have even said that Max is the difference maker.

Dominant cars:
2014 Mercedes
2015 Mercedes
2016 Mercedes
2019 Mercedes
2020 Mercedes
2011 Red Bull
2004 Ferrari
2002 Ferrari
1992 Williams
1988 McLaren

Where does it rank among the all time dominant cars? I'm not sure it even gets in the top 5.

 

See this is what I mean. You already agree that RB is dominant but then try to make other points to protect Max.
Many drivers said that Sir Lewis Hamilton was the difference in the Merc. Same thing they are saying about Max. This is nothing new. You know what else they are saying? They are saying the RB is dominant, or league of its own, however they may word it. But you left out that part didn't you. Bottas drove better at Merc than Perez at RB and still Perez place higher his first two years at RB compared to Bottas first two years.
As I said RB are way ahead in constructors that Merc was, so you should put RB at the top of that list.

 

I didn't protect Max at all. I was stating an interesting point that you didn't mean to make. RBR is crushing everyone and it's because of Max as Perez is barely holding his own.

As expected you put the RB19 ahead of every car, even though the evidence doesn't support it. You will now make say it again "RB is 300 points ahead!" and I'll once again point out the point you didn't mean to make "Because of Max!". And I will provide facts how Perez has a 49 pt lead over the 3rd place driver, and Max has a 194 point lead over the 3rd place driver.

I will also show how the RB19 has just 6 1-2 finishes this season, even though the car is a rocket in the race. How many times have Max and Perez qualified 1-2 this season?

I might even go back in history and state how unbelievably fast Mercedes was. Nobody had a chance.
2014 - 18 poles. 12 1-2 qualis
2015 - 18 poles. 15 1-2 qualis
2016 - 20 poles. 15 1-2 qualis
2020 - 15 poles. 13 1-2 qualis (in 17 races).

Yeah I'm confident to not put the RB19 at or near the top of the all time dominant cars.

 

I suspect that with years Red Bull engineers managed to give Max a car that suits perfectly his driving style or likes.
This is the most outstanding proof of their brilliance I guess.
Horner is great team manager.
Period.

 

You state RB has 6 12 finishes this season. My data shows the most Merc had was 12 1-2s in 2016. Given that this season has a ways to go this is not a stark difference with RB. But yet you say its all because of Max.
My data shows 2016 was the only year that Merc had a big gap from 3rd place. Other years were similar to this Perez gap to 3rd. But you say its all Max. Perez contributed over half of the constructors points, but you say those points don't matter, its Max. If you took away Perez points. RB would be 5th in constructors. So your evidence doesn't support that they are 300 points ahead because of Max.

 

For some days now I am desperately trying NOT to post in the current discussion (as it is the umpteenth repeat), but this is too much.

Red Bull currently has 583 points (Max 364 and Perez 219). If you take away the points of Perez, Red Bull would have 364 points and still be first in the constructors championship (as Mercedes currently has 273 points).

Do you have problems with elementary calculus???

 

Lets play which is the bigger number:

364 or 273?

 

This also, has come up more frequent than should be normal when dealing with this individual.

 

Don't feed the troll...

(A rule that always reminds me by association of ideas of Tony Joe White's 1972 song: "Even Trolls love Rock'n Roll")

Rgds

 

I miss calculated that. However by those numbers the fact remains RB is not 300 points ahead of the constructors only because of Max as the poster stated. It would be less than 100 if not for Perez. Again, 300 more points than Merc had during their dominance.

 

So,

2014--> Mercedes 701pts vs RedBull 405pts

Difference of 296 pts


2015--> Mercedes 703pts vs Ferrari 428pts

Difference of 275 pts


2016--> Mercedes 765pts vs RedBull 468pts

Difference of 296pts

 

And to think this season is not near over! Thanks for posting that clear picture of RB dominace.

 

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Long before he got in a dominant car...