Yes I know this has been discussed at length over the past 10 years here. And I’ve read nearly every one. That said, here’s my questions: I have a 07 430 coming to me next week. 3,000 miles and I think the MK1 OEM headers, possibly MK2, everything stock. I want a stock car, but have zero tolerance for ticking time bombs. I’ve read all your posts on this issue and understand many believe the brackets are the root cause and combined with the pre-cat and design can lead to a disaster. I’ve also read lots of things about the after market brackets and their possible Vibration issues which are annoying to The ear, hard to get on just right, etc. Some seem to love them, others hate them. So kind of a coin flip. So is removing the brackets on an OEM header enough (assuming headers haven’t failed already) or is there still validity to replacing with Capristo headers and blankets and thus removing the precast? (With added bonus of more HP and a little better sound). second question is - If I do go this route, not counting price, if I want as factory sound as possible, is Capristo way to go? I don’t want it too loud and think factory is plenty loud. third question - OEM challenge headers as good as Capristo? Or could those still crack without also addressing the bracket? Everyone on these forums seems to think they are so cheap but looking online as of today still $5,500 a pair. I think the prices have doubled lately so not a ton less than Capristo. thanks.
If you take the Ferrari oem brackets and hangers off, you still have to fit something like the Capristo expansion brackets to support the system. The system will expand 18 mm on the capristo brackets so that will give the manifolds an easier time..
As far as I know. The challenge headers have not been observed cracking. I’d ask myself if you want to risk potential engine damage just for the sake of keeping the stock setup. that said, I met an owner who probably has over 200k miles on his F430 by now and he’s running stock headers. He’s replaced them six times because he insists on staying completely stock. if you don’t plan on driving it often, you might be just fine. If you do though, I’d would rather spend the money on a known fix than constantly keeping an ear out for signs of cracking.
Challenge headers look OEM so can help with passing inspection if you have that issue. They are slightly louder but nothing crazy and won't fail as they don't have the precat. The OEM heat shielding + precat + flexing causes the OEM headers to crack, so if you take the precat out of the equation, it fixes the problem. Challenge headers were ~$1800 this time last year so they have risen a lot in price. Capristo or Fabspeed will be a good bit louder than stock and you'll need blankets.
Have you considered the Tubis? Check out my thread below if you haven’t. Stockish sound, reasonably priced (if you shop around), no blankets, and no CEL. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/tubi-exhaust-manifolds.679167/
Are Tubi the most “stock” sounding aftermarket? At this point I’m Going to go Tubi, Capristo or OEM Challenge. Have no idea what each sounds like.
Whats the most stock sounding? Challenge or Tubi or Capristo? All seem to accomplish the same thing I’m trying to do.
I’m the same way, prefer things stock, but made the decision to preemptively replace the mk2 headers with capristo/blankets. My decision was mainly based on positive reviews from fchat members. Only thing I’m worried about is triggering cel after. If it does, I’ll just spring for the capristo obd wizard rather than o2 extenders or ecu reflash, just because it’s easier.
Tubis are very much like stock. Not sure they are more stock sounding than the Challenge headers, but I’m guessing they are similar. Just a bit more “bark” at startup but I can’t tell the difference when driving between the stock and Tubis.
Challenge headers have a more hollow sound at low RPMs than stock. No other way to explain it, but at high revs it has the same tone as Stock. I would think the Tubi sounds a little different at the high end because of the different material (Inconel) they are made out of.
I would do extenders over a $10 OBD dongle that Capristo charges $1k+ for. But that's just me. My Fabspeed headers are louder than stock throughout the rev range, but the sound tone/pitch didn't really change. Just 15-20% louder now.
I can HIGHLY (!) recommend the Capristo headers and blankets. Running them for 3 years now. Sounds amazing, really.
I hear u, but I don’t do any of the work myself, so I prefer not to pay for pickup/delivery, installation, and not be guaranteed the cel will go away. I’ve seen some people post that they still have cel after extenders installed.
You can always get it tuned. I’m about to have mine done by Mase Engineering as they have lots of great testimonials here and are 300 miles north of me in NOFLO. I’ll start a new thread on how it turns out after the tune and driving it a while to relearn.
Interesting note to share. I just spoke with the owner of the famed “Jag Shop” in Portland which despite the name was a team of ex Ferrari oem techs for decades, Portland actually had one of the the first Ferrari dealership in the USA and he used to work there. He said he’s owned 2 f430’s personally each with 20k miles plus with oem headers and no issues. And had worked on over 40 f430’s in total in his career and only 1 of those ever needed headers replaced. His rec was to do nothing. I do sometimes wonder the thousands of 430 owners who DONT have any issues if they ever even write in to F chat. Still mulling over a pre emptive switch but wanted to share.
Just ignore the CEL then? Seems like a lot of money to pay to turn a light off. The concern is that if the headers break and the engines sucks broken header material into the engine, a replacement motor is ~$25k + install. Headers are a good bit less. It's similar to rod bearings in the old high-revving BMW M motors or the 996/997s with IMS bearing issues. 99% of cars don't have an issue, but the motor blowing up is 5-10x more expensive than the bulletproofing fix.
The only point of data I can contribute is my 2008 had MK2 header failure at 5k miles. Customer heard the ticking noise and the dealer confirmed the failure. However, I'm at 30k miles now with the same headers from that replacement. Go figure. Either way, I don't feel like playing a guessing game as to if I got a good set that will last forever or one that could fail me on a trip where I'm far from home.
I’m more worried about passing state inspection with cel. If I do end up needing it, I have to understand how the capristo wizard works better. How long does it take for the cel to trip when the code is cleared? If I just take the dongle off immediately before my inspection, will that consistently work?
I spoke with owner of jag shop and Ferrari Wilsonville specially about engine failure potential . Neither had ever heard of an engine issue as result of header. Out of a lot of 430’s they had seen. I know it’s happened to a few on F chat, I’m just saying it’s probably less than 1%. Even on F chat only a few examples of engine issues. Mostly just cracked headers and replacements . And what % of owners are even on F chat? Just thinking maybe this issue is overblown on the forums
Challenge headers were hands down the best all around option until last year when they almost tripled in price. Now they are so close to the tubi/larini/capristo you might as well go with those instead. The other group would be the Chinese made AP/fabspeed/top speed which are ok, very cheap (except one) but require expensive blankets to be useful. Anyway, I'm running the$1200 challenge headers and am very happy with them. They definitely have extras welds and some different construction from the mk1/mk2 and no reported failures. I also deleted the brackets that cause cracks, and am running a kline exhaust which weights 60% less than the stock muffler. All those combined lead me to believe I'm in good shape when it comes to any future failures Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have the exact same set up as Kenny and I removed those stupid brackets that cause cracks the day I bought my car.
Put the tubi manifolds..dump the brackets..enjoy the car. Yes they are a bit deeper and louder in tone because they eliminate the pre-cat. Tubi relocates the O2 sensor, so engine light is not an issue..no tune required.
Went with expensive capristo solution with blankets and sliding bracket system. Had to get a Mase engineering flash to get rid of ecu light. Car is an absolute animal, crazy throttle response and palpable increase in power. Definitely louder but not obnoxious. Only complaint is slight change in sound because of equal length vs unequal length in stocks. At first was unsettling as I liked the stock sound better but have grown to love them and don't have to worry about stock cracking issues over and over again.
