812 Replacement Rumors

because when I see the rev counter
I knew it was turning 10k rpm.

 

Buddy that's crazy, the 812 Competizione is leaps and bounds ahead of the other 2. Very shocked. And to think the next very of the special will put the 812 in it's place with the GTO and TDF.

 

with no insights at all, my guess would be Geneva Motorshow 2024...it's back after 5 years and used to be traditionally always where Ferrari would announce key models

 

How confident are we that the car will be NA V12 ?

 

If you’ve read the thread, Very.

 

Doubt it.... a bit... with the latest Lamborghini Revuelto putting out north of a 1000 bhp, it would mean you would be driving a second place car from the start.

A good car for sure, but if it comes out with ....let's say around 850 bhp, it just doesn't look ......mmm enough.

Another upgrade like the F12 to the 812 is not going to cut it, it needs similar power, which means.......

 

Ferrari has made a strategic decision to favor last V12 customers with cars that hold value (instead of going hybrid). If the ICE beats Lambo's one and the car is also more compact and lighter, it will be enough, even if that means 150 hp less than Revuelto.

The ways of Lambo and Ferrari have departed, with Lambo constantly increasing the car size while Ferrari is reducing.

While the V12 battle still goes on, it has to be remembered that Revuelto is Lambo's Top Gun. F167 will not be. It is questionable will it be even the third fastest model in the line up.

 

For regular series production … very

 

The Ferrari that currently competes with the Revuelto in numbers is the SF90. Both hybrids, in the 1000 hp range, with a central rear engine.

The F167 will not have direct competitors. It's the car for those who want the pure V12 experience, without hybridization, and don't just prioritize numbers.

When it comes to numbers and dynamics, the F167 mission is simply to surpass its predecessor.

 

Thank you for the clarification and contribution.

If it's at the Geneva Motor Show, it will be incredible. The return of the Geneva Motor Show, with the launch of a V12 Ferrari, would be great.

 

Species

a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. The species is the principal natural taxonomic unit, ranking below a genus.

 

Regarding NA horsepower there is no magic bullet for a road engine in the balance between power and reliability at least when considering cost. The gain of the F12tdf over F12B is 38 hp. 812 over F12tdf is 20 hp. 812c over 812 is 30 hp. The average gain is 29 hp. So pretty much 848/849 hp. Will spin just shy of 10k rpm.

The usual Ferrari evolution includes incremental upgrade in brakes, less friction in engine, better diff logic, more nannies, cheaper quality materials, more automation in manufacturing, will have the upgraded active suspension, rear wheel steering standard, more weight, more gadgets, and at least one tech upgrade not released yet. The 'c' version will be lighter weight and harder lines. All will be well over-priced and copy of design features from PF with added flaps and grills. Sound will not compare to F12/812 non-GPF.

 

For some reason people I know in the car business who are close to dealers seem to have heard that it will be a hybrid. One of them even mentioned it might not be a V12 at all. In which case the V12 will just be reserved to a few specials and iconas. The La ferrari replacement is also rumoured to be v6 hybrid so it would be plausible for Ferrari to reserve the V12 from now on to just a few limited / exclusive / highly priced models

 

Wasn’t 812 larger than F12 and so on? That was a complaint from many. Which comparisons are you referring to about F cars going smaller?

 

This man knows everything, he has informants at the dealer. (dealers are just brokers, they don't know anything)

 

Car Dealers are obviously highly stocked in 812’s then… yes LaF will be v6 hybrid, that bears no correlation to what the F167 will be.. I’m happy Ferrari are not chasing hp numbers on this car, might come later with VS.

 

I believe it was beginning of Q2, but agree Geneva would be great for the Reveal..

 

I for myself in the camp of those who believe Ferrari will have to chase some horsepowers. What’s the point making another plain NA V12 on the existing engine with a further 30/50 hp ( from the SF 812 hp) produced in sky high numbers and way way more inflated prices? You then have lambo now making 1000 or so hp using a hybrid setup and the new wealthy young generation of customers Ferrari is courting aren’t that much interested in front engine NA V12 ( unless its a special series) but rather a more techy/ digital based customer base. My personal opinion? It will be either v12 hybrid or small v6/v8 hybrid ( with possible turbo). Some will say that’s already the place of the sf90 but what if there is no successor to the sf90 after all and this car is in fact that successor as well?

 

It is well known that all owners use 100% of the potential of the 812, and therefore there is a lack of hp...

 

Most lambo owners probably don’t even use half of the aventador power, neither do owners of the sf90… but to attract the young flashy clientele you need the highest hp possible…although most of them can’t use 10% on a straight line!

 

I guess you haven’t understood the concept of customer segmentation and matching products to the needs of those segments? Regardless of what you say, there are plenty more folk willing to splash cash on an NA V12 2 seat Ferrari than they could ever produce.

 

Don’t get me wrong i understand that concept and fall myself well into that segment ( na front engine v12) having bought an f12, 812 and tdf. I’m just not convinced that given where competition is heading, the direction ferrari is taking and the client base they are targetting that it will remain viable betting on a further 7 or so years of high production na na12 coupe and later convertible offering just a little more than the 812 albeit at way higher prices. Again just sharing thoughts here i’m not saying it won’t happen i neither have a crystal ball nor do I know the answer just debating and speculating to keep things fun and exciting until we all know for sure the outcome

 

Ferrari focuses on allowing more power to be usable for the driver. That in the end is more important than competing with maximum power.

As a reminder, there is a 830 hp and 1000 hp cars in Ferrari range, but the one with less power/cylinders is generally considered to be better and more enjoyable car.

 

1650kg (with driver) front v12 850 hp 10k rpm would be the best car in the world

 

I’d be happy with 840hp if they made the F167 smaller and lighter so it can compete with the Lambos of the world . Though the Aventador and 812 never competed in the same space they were always compared in the press and the 812 acquitted itself quite well. This won’t be the case with the F167 if it is bigger, heavier running 840-50 hp.
Ferrari- please- less weight- more filling!


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