Delivery mileage, Blue Tour de France at Tom Hartley for £875k including taxes. Seems cheap....
Delivery mileage, Blue Tour de France at Tom Hartley for £875k including taxes. Seems cheap. https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/car/stock/2017/ferrari/f12tdf/ferrari-f12tdf-2/
It’s a total misprice. As a matter of fact it sold instantly after it got advertised. TH was just lucky to find a distressed buyer and buy the car cheap from him which in turn allowed him to sell it way too cheap. TH father did the same with a red tdf earlier this year which he advertised £890 while all others were circa £1m. A few months later a low mileage yellow tdf sold at £970k ( just a few months ago) So that car which is already sold is a clear outlier and not reflective of the market. ( hence why it sold instantly)
That being said tdf in the UK when you look at the exchange rate ARE very cheap compared to prices in Europe & the US - a del mileage car ( not a one off / tailor made) would sell for circa £950/970k incl taxes which is circa $1.15m ( tax included)
So you were saying that Tom Hartley, who makes more money than pretty much anyone else in the car business globally didn’t know the value of a TDF? I’m not buying that. I have bought and sold cars from Tom and he doesn’t leave a single penny on the table.
Tom hartley buys and sells cars he cares only about the margin he makes on the sale. If he can buy a tdf 100k below all other cars he will list it 100k below all other cars to turn a quick profit.. i assure you his father TH sold a red tdf in March which he listed at £890 that he bought straight from the buyer who was trying to get Ferrari tonsell it at £980. On the same month another dealer Meridien Modena sold another red tdf with same mileage ( 1000) at £940k, in may Dick Lovett Ferrari sold a white tdf (1600 miles) at £970 and 3 months later in June Romans International sold a yellow tdf del mileage at £970k ( just 4 months ago). So yea TH junior here def sold this car way under market BECAUSE he bought it cheap from a distressed seller and all he cares about is his margin. And again this car sold instantly at launch which speaks by itself
I know he bought from a seller. And given it sold way under all other cars in the market it was either a motivated seller or someone who didnt care about +/-£100k which. The se seller was trying to sell this car through Dick Lovett Ferrari ( official ferrari dealer) who were asking £1m for it. After just 2 months this car appeared at TH Junior at £875k, ie he didn’t even give more than 5 or so weeks for an official dealer to sell it -,despite knowing that a similar car recently sold at £970. Either way whether its a distressed or motivated seller or whoever it was he was prepared to take a massive cut to sell it to Hartley. Thats the onlt reason why TH was able to list it at that price and sell it instantly - an obvious arbitrage
As you can see from his website - Sale agreed. it sold the moment it got listed. Let’s ask ourselves what that means wrt to valuation…feel free to check all other cars in the UK to convince yourself https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/car/stock/2017/ferrari/f12tdf/ferrari-f12tdf-2/
You are right that TH would never leave a penny on the table ( i have myself dealt with him a few times as well and know the man’s reputation well) As a matter of fact TH father has a tdf for sale at £899k with 3300 miles on the clock ( the advert incorrectly says 3000) which an imported car from New Zeland. It makes no sense for an imported car with 3300 miles to be listed as £25k more than a near delivery mileage UK supplied car. So yes either TH Junior ( the son) didn’t know where the narket was on the tdf and/or he could afford to list it there because he found someone motivated enough to let him advertise it that low and lock in his margin within a few minutes This is the car from TH father fyi https://www.tomhartley.com/used-car-details/used-ferrari-f12-tdf-coupe-giallo-triplo-strato-f1-dct-petrol/id-27491/
Also let’s not forget that these are RHD cars, it’s a different market. I am quietly looking at 599 gto market these days and RHD cars are much cheaper than other cars in Europe or in the USA.
I personally can’t see that gap staying where it is. $500k difference on a low mileage tdf between a UK car and USA/EU car makes nonsense. A tdf is a tdf at the end of the day and let’s not forget that RHD cars are a lot rarer. They were selling at a premium to LHD cars a few years ago so such a massive discount today is an arbitrage that i doubt will stay too long
Ok so now you are saying there is a “massive” discount between RHD and LHD after many posts saying TH made a mistake. I’m just puzzled. I’m not trying to convince myself of anything I don’t own a TDF and am not looking to buy one. It is possible prices are coming down. There are wars going on, interest rates have more than doubled, economies are looking weaker. I think TH sold the car at exact the level at which it would sell and not sit. I think this sale tells us the true value of a delivery mileage RHD TdF is £875k (or lower depending on where it actually sold).
I’m not sure why i wasn’t clear. I said del mileage where around £950/970k which are sometimes 500k usd apart from us/eu cars. I also said that TH junior sold at the wrong price there is evidence of 4/5 cars that sold above £950 very recently. I know another dealer who would have been happy writing a cheque for that car at that money. Sure if you feel that’s where del mileage uk cars are his father wants £899k for an imported dar with 3300 miles. But your logic this car should be worth £800k. Since you know his father i suggest you call him and try buy his car at £800k Another very low mileage car is on with European Prestige at £999k - please feel free to offer him £875 see if he’ll sell you the car Another bianco italia tailor made at £989 with 1600 miles ar Ferrari Charles Hurst - feel free to offer 875 and see what he says? I maintain that THJ sold well under market value because he only cares about the margin and someone was willing ( or needed) to part with his car at a huge discount. I call it a motivated seller, happy new buyer and happy dealer
Tom hartley junior probably hasn’t sold a single tdf in years and that car was the outlier among other tdf in the market for sale by both official dealers and non ferrari dealers and again much lower than where cars recently sold and where his own father has a high mileage car listed. Are you suggesting that all other dealers including ferrari dealers as well as recent buyers who purchased tdf are all wrong and that THJ who hasn’t dealt with a tdf in years is the only one right?
You are right there is a war but the war in Ukraine last year did not push prices on the contrary all collector cars were rising globally seen as a hedge against inflation - a flight to tangible assets. There’s a lot of evidence on other rare collector cars in the UK RIGHT NOW that are selling at all time highs and clearly dont indicate that prices are declining on the contrary. Interest rates will impact more affordable cars but imo opinion cars in that price segment are higher aren’t bought on finance and history teaches us that following recessions and inflationary periods there tends to be a flight to tangible assets.
Here is one example of cars currently under offer - above £1.5m they were selling for about £1.2m earlier this year despite lower UK interest rates and the absence of war… https://www.europeanprestige.co.uk/stock/for-sale/details/2014-porsche-918-spyder-weissach-package/321 An official Ferrari dealer just sold a Laferrari they were asking £3.5m for it they were under £3n same time last year.. A few sls black series in the UK sold recently at all time highs as well from a few different dealers An 812 competizione just sold off market just under £1.4m in the UK …
And i forgot a few 458 SA just sold at or above £700k and a ferrari dealer , meridien modena just raised the asking price for his car ( above 4000 miles) from £690k to £725k
That’s a big statement. Fletcher Jones Mercedes Newport are selling 900 - 1,000 cars per month. I think what you probably meant to say was, TH transacts a large volume of high end cars and would be amongst the top five dealers in the UK for this array of cars and sales. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I think we need first to distinguish between Tom Hartley ( the father) and Tom Hartley Junior ( the son who became independant) and who is the one who just sold the tdf in question. TH Junior specialises in classic cars (and hasn’t sold a tdf in years or other special series either other than very few and is not interested in modern cars either) not modern cars while his father a more widely known figure is a lot more active in modern super and hyper cars. His father is asking £25k more for a a car with 3300 miles and an imported car and I would tend to trust TH father more wrt being able to value these cars more accurately. He sold lots of tdf, gto, laF and other special series and hypercars over the year.
Oh it was THJ. Yes he has a very different model all together. I definitely like how THJ presents himself and what he has done with his career. See this video of his early days in the game. An absolute gentleman and a Class act. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310313504073?sort=price-desc&advertising-location=at_cars&make=Ferrari&model=F12%20tdf&postcode=SW3%203nh&fromsra TM car, 1600 miles. £1.125M
Canna di Fucile, 1,200 miles, $1.55m Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It seems Ferrari of Nashville just sold a very similar car ( grey) with over 2000 miles they were asking $1.55-1.6m for it I believe
