Could of been mine that I recently traded in to them (Argento Nurburgring) - had around 2700 miles on it. They do (or did) have another TDF for sale right after that, buyer could of possibly swapped TDFs?
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/698617304?listingType=USED&makeCode=FER&modelCode=FERF12TDF&newSearch=false&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fferrari%2Ff12tdf%3FisNewSearch%3Dfalse&clickType=listing Another stunning tailor made car from Merit Partners. I wonder how these guys manage to find so many gems….anyone knows how much they are asking for that car?
Agreed it seems to tdf market is becoming a bit like a two - way market where the best spec / very special cars sell and at a premium and the basic spec / least desirable colours take a long time to sell even at a discount
For those of you claiming that Tom Hartley Jnr does not know his market - here is another TDF in the UK for £895K (and of course it will sell for less than that). Seems in the UK market at least, prices are down across the board for nearly everything and F12 TDFs are no exception https://www.romansinternational.com/used/cars/ferrari/f12/--2241.
Provenance and car history are a big driving factor on prices. This car has had 5 or 6 owners, been on a few auction platforms and with several dealers for sale - a car considered too famous and knows by everyone here in the UK as a result hence it does not have a good history. It also has in excess of 2000 miles It can not compare with a delivery mileage car with a good history which happens to be in a more desirable spec and colour as well Ferrari Maranello just advertised a tailor made car with 1600 miles at £1,125,000 i repeat and maintain that THJ pricing ( who rarely deals with those cars) was wrong and was only able to advertise it that low because the original owner was motivated and sold it to him that low. As s result it sold instantly when advertised Finally check his father’s (TH) website you will see he wants £900k for a 3300 miles tdf which is not even UK supplied but imported - contradicting his son’s pricing for a delivery mileage UK car it was a good buy for whoever bought that car
And for what it’s worth Romans are still asking £25m more for their car compared tomTHJ pricing despite the car history and mileage ( explained above)
Romans fyi sold another delivery mileage just a few months ago at £970k while THJ did a flash sale at £875k asking price for his del mileage carb- well below all other cars sold recently and advertised in the market…if he could lock a margin quickly on the back of the seller and make a new client happy after all why not? THJ isn’t concerned about modern cars..
I also disagree when you say that everything is down across the board. Check prices for Laferrari and carrera GT. They are rising and are nearly 10% higher than they were a few months ago.
This is a yellow germany supplied yellow tdf with 6500 km just advertised at 1,420,000 euros. The asking price strongly suggests they are rising if anything https://www.autoscout24.it/annunci/-2bd528f6-b3df-477d-9ae7-159206b042f1 similarly the below tdf in blue tour de france, with about 6500km as well for sale in the Netherlands by a serious dealer at 1,700,000 euros. And he recently increased the asking price by about 200,000 euros. https://www.autoscout24.nl/aanbod/-c72445e1-f941-45ac-ada3-fc4b76d4bf90 That if anything also points to rising prices. recent sales in the US between 1.5 and 1.7 m usd as well depending on spec and mileage… Those numbers are suggesting that 1) prices are firming up 2) the gap between the price of those cars in the lhd market and those in the rhd market ; UK) is so wide that it indicates an obvious arbitrage which I’m willing to bet will narrow ( if not close) soon. Wait til spring summer next year .. and then spring summer the following year for that spread to narrow substantially..
there were two here at ferrari of seattle. one sold in the 1.1 range (gray car from houston) recently, while the other is still listed at just under 1.3 (red car). the gray car went in maybe 2-3 months while the red car is still there after several months. https://www.ferrariofseattle.com/used-Seattle-2016-Ferrari-F12TDF-+-ZFF81BFA0G0217362
As of today (13 November 2023) on the Swiss website autoscout24.ch you will find: A red F12 TDF with 9'896 kms and an asking price of Swiss Francs CHF 1'400'000. A red F12 TDF with 3'900 kms and an asking price of Swiss Francs CHF 1'487'500. A Blu TDF F12 TDF with 8'900 kms and an asking price of Swiss Francs CHF 1'350'000. A black F12 TDF with 5'200 kms and an asking price of Swiss Francs CHF 1'450'000. A red F12 TDF with 500 kms and an asking price of Swiss Francs CHF 1'600'000. A yellow F12 TDF with 5'000 kms and an asking price of Swiss Francs CHF 1'400'000. Marcel Massini
Ferrari of NY sold a yellow above 1.4, while merit partners sold a few cars in the last 2/3 months some of them above 1.5m usd There was also a del mileage grey car that sold above 1.5m and another that sold recently with over 2000 miles ( grey as well) that was listed close to 1.6m usd
Correct Also 1 blue with 6500km in netherlands at 1.7m eur and a blue tailor made in france with over 10,000 km around 1.6m euros i believe
Another nice triple layer yellow , higher mileage ( with stripe). Usd 1.53m ( plus tax) https://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/listing/2017/ferrari/f12tdf/224468
In addition to a white TM tdf with 1600 miles just listed at £1.125m, here is another example https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311143940135?sort=price-desc&advertising-location=at_cars&include-delivery-option=on&make=Ferrari&model=812%20Competizione&postcode=Sw33na&year-to=2023&fromsra play grey 812 Competizione with 1000 miles from a known dealer in the UK at £1.3m that not only reinforces my view that the market isn’t going but up , but also the fact that the gap to the tdf is too wide and is about to narrow. Let alone the gap rhd vs lhd. In Europe the gap tdf vs comp is much much tighter. and with inflation coming down across developed nations and central banks likely starting to cut early next year imo people hoping for prices to go down will regret it in spring next year…my 2 cts
In the UK cars are not changing hands for anywhere near those figures and remember you are quoting asking prices not prices achieved. The best way to establish actual value is perhaps to look at auction results. I can't find any 2023 results (which may say a lot in that people are holding onto their cars hoping the prices recover) but there are 3 from 2022 (happy for someone to find more recent auction results) 1275 km car sold for £678K https://www.iconicauctioneers.com/2017-ferrari-f12-rec11260-1-sywell-0622 (this was an LHD car too so that perhaps dispels the RHD price discount) 4977 mile car sold for £850K https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2017-ferrari-f12-tdf 2100 mile car sold for £792K https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2016-ferrari-f12-tdf (I believe this is the ex JK car which is offered by Romans that I mentioned in my previous post and may well sell for less than its asking price of £860K) Are either of you owners by any chance? Or just jealous or worried that cars in the UK sell for much lower prices than quoted in the posts above Just my 2 cents back.....
So far this year several 812 Comp sold between £1.2 and £1.4m ( included) I myself know a few of them personally. romans a few months ago sold a del mileage tdf at £970, autostore europe sold a hk supplied white tdf around £960 this summer, dick lovett sold a white tm tdf ( in excess of 1500 miles) around £970, exactly a year ago romans sold a one of one green tm tdf for £945k, at the beginning of this year meridien modena sold a red tdf with 1000 miles at £935k. again remember that ex Jay K car that is you are right with romans has a very bad history too many owners, been at bonhams, on collecting cars, at romans twice, at octane and a few other dealers. It is too famous and hence carry a steep discount / no collector and investor will buy that car. The spread between that car and a good low mileage tdf in a more desirable spec and colour is huge as is everywhere else in the world. Provenance and history have a huge impact on valuation. right now in the UK the only low / del mileage car with a good spec / colour ( triple lauer yellow) and history is advertised at £1m.,the next del mileage is a tailor made atb£1.15m the silver car ( ex jay K) is the cheapest for a good reason. The next cheapest is a 2000 miles car in rosso corsa.,again as been confirmed by members and results at auction tdf in rosso tend to sell on the low end of the price range. This car in rosso corsa with circa 2000 miles is priced at £900k, consistent with the triple layer del mileage car above at £1m. so please don’t get confused by that jay K car it is at that price for a reason. That said once its sold you’ll be left with the cheapest option being a 2000 miles rosso corsa car at £900k.,good as a driver but not a desirable example for a collector. That leaves you with the very low mileage investment-grade / collectible examples at £1m or more. By the way you mentioned its the ex jay k car you can see hahaha it’s famous like yourself everyone knows that car….and most dealers wont touch it i assure you.that said its a very good buy at the money romans are asking as a driver…
And remember we are in a very high interest rates environment AND year end which is the quietest period to sell those cars. Let’s have another update in the next few months as we approach spring after the Boe started cutting rates.. and see where we stand..
Looking at auction results is totally misleading. Auctions cover not more than 10 percent of all deals and sales. The large majority of ownership changes certainly happen not via auction. Not everything happens in public. And that's good, very good. Marcel Massini
Agreed . And not to mention lots of them happen off market sometimes at stronger prices that where they exchange hands at dealers. Looking at two cars from auctions a year ago , one lhd imported from Lebanon in the UK, the other one being the grey ex JK in question with very poor history. It certainly doesn’t reflect on all the majority of the good cars that exchanged hands at reputable dealers and off market collector to collector ( even stronger than dealer sales) in the past 12 months
Best cars not advertised, rarely if ever make it to auction. Change hands privately and/or quietly thru dealers.
