‘62 GTO 3765 to be auctioned at Sotheby’s NYC November 13.

They are not trying to sell a car, which is what we are debating. They are selling “Art”

Think of the 308 GT4 WRECK, not a car, but ART

At $60M, for ART, this is a steal by our standards

 

It was a spare engine lying around from the burnt out 250P test mule.

 

What would some of you rather have? A little polished pebble or 3765?

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3765 of course

 

Understand but would have expected that the 250P would have been using the updated engine series at that time since the timing should have worked out.

 

This would absolutely have been the latest development of the 250 racing engine. It would have been 128 LM/63 and very probably a tipo 210 engine making around 310 BHP which was more than the tipo 168/62 Comp engine of a 250 GTO. These were used in the 250 P cars.

 

The 128E engine was used in the 250GTO (1962) and Testa Rossa (1961) and produced 300bhp at 7700rpm. The Tipo 210 was the race engine developed from the 128E and produced 310bhp at 7500rpm. It was the 1963 development of the former.

 

A Tipo 168 motor is basically the same as a late 250 (128 series) motor except the fuel pump is relocated high on the side of the chaincase in order to fit into a SWB chassis. Both the 128 and 168 motors used a selection of cylinder heads with ever increasing valve sizes (and port shapes) as they were developed through the years.

 

Just found the original source of this photograph of 3765's engine mountings which are from @Motob, Brian Brown. Please see his post here.

 

I don't remember who posted it but a couple of years ago, when #4153 GT was sold, someone had mentioned that the next 250 GTO that would be available for sale in the future will be sold for over 100 million.

Of course, the car's past also plays a major role...
It will be interesting to see what will happen..

 

Well, none of us know what 4153GT actually did sell for, despite the circa $70,000,000 figure claimed without proof.

 

I like this picture.

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Copyright RM Sotheby's.

 

I went to see my old friend 3765LM this afternoon.

 

Engines installed by the Ferrari factory competition department ("SF") in period

1. May 1962 42 SA
3765 LM used this 3-Weber Ferrari 4-liter competition engine for the 1962 1000km Nurburgring race where it placed 1st in class and 2nd OA.
One of the Ferrari experts has confirmed to me that this engine was installed by the SF in another comp car in period.
2. June 1962 48 SA
3765 LM used this 6-Weber Ferrari 4-liter competition engine for the 1962 Le Mans 24hr race where it DNF'ed due to overheating*.
*Early in the race, Parkes put the car in the sandbank at the end of the Mulsanne as the Aston he was attempting to overtake reached the corner first.
I don't have confirmation but the practice at the time would have been for the SF to install this in another comp car in period.
3. May 1963 0796 TR
3765 LM was fitted with this 6-Weber Ferrari 3-liter competition engine by the factory during its' transformation (SF's verb, not mine) from 330LM to 250 GTO.
0796 is the engine the first and second privateer owner/racers used to compete with the car as a 250 GTO from 1963-1966 and is the engine that powered it to 2nd OA in the 1965 Sicilian hillclimb championship. 0796 is the engine that powers the car to this day.

Other engine(s) associated with this car
1. tipo 163 LM 4-liter, 6-Weber Ferrari NOS block (numero interno unknown to me) built circa 1990 by Gianni Diena at Auto Sport Modena during the time 3765 LM was being restored.
This engine is listed in the spares in the RM/Sotheby's report and accompanies the car in the sale.

As discussed previously, the restoration was based on the 1962 Le Mans 24 hours spec*. The body remains in that configuration to this day. This 4-liter engine was fitted for a time in the 1990s so that the owner could experience what that increased performance would have been.
*One key difference between the 1962 LM 24h 'moment in time' restoration, and the actual race spec- as ably pointed out by Steve R./'miurasv'- is the transmission.
42 SA and 48 SA were mated to a 4-speed trans for the first two SF-entered races. When the first privateer owner had the SF replace 48 SA during the transformation, SF installed 0796 with a 5-speed transmission as per GTO spec.

 

Good news and Bad news for 3765 LM

First, let's start with the bad news. Ferrari/the SF only built 36 250 GTOs and 3765 LM wasn't one of them.

Now the good news. In November 1962 Ferrari sold 3765 LM to the first privateer owner, Pietro Ferraro*.
In 1963, first-owner Pietro Ferraro brought the car back to the SF and asked them to make it a GTO, which they did.
Which they could do in 1963 because they were FERRARI.

Thanks to the 152-page report prepared by RM/Sotheby's, we have this gem on page 13 from Ferrari's records in 1963-

"
VETTURA 330 LM n. 3765LM AVV. FERRARO
---------------------------------------------------------------
La vettura e strata in officina per essore transformata in GTO=
"
etc., etc.

This work order begins with the chassis, then the engine, and then the other various technical and mechanical elements of their factory prototype car that will need to be 'transformata' in order for them to fulfill the work order.

As a bonus, the order states that the proving work/testing and tuning will be done by a factory employee.
Fella by the name of Surtees (John). Cool.

But don't take my word for it, check out page 13, or page 20, or for best results, read the whole thing->
http://catalogue.rmsothebys.com/books/psit/?&utm_source=rmsothebys.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GT23&utm_term=GT23_History&_cldee=oN3HRMNoQUi0sPziWhM0IDlyXR0ks1D_ZsiRji6fQNm-PixNLgD9XTraN3ytJ800&recipientid=contact-798599152c61ee11829d000c2971a03a-0e4fc86e01da4c26aaab88660a7048f9&esid=f2d1c899-ea6d-ee11-829e-000c2971a03a

*Pietro Ferraro was not exactly your run of the mill first-owner of this car... and who he was probably had a lot to do with them being willing to sell him 3765LM in its 4-liter factory prototype spec in November 1962.

Pietro Ferraro's brother Paolo Ferraro was the first owner/racer of TDF 0555GT.
Pietro Ferraro was the first owner/racer of the following cars; TDF 0905GT, SWB Comp 1813GT, GTO 3451GT.

In addition, Pietro Ferraro placed 1st in GT and 4th OA with 250 GTO 3451 GT in May of 1962 at the Targa Florio.
All this may have gone a long way in terms of Ferrari being willing to sell him one of their factory prototypes unmodified, and shortly thereafter consent to his wishes to make the changes necessary for him to race it as a GTO.

So despite the challenges this may have provided to anyone keeping track, the Ferrari 250 GTO count became, "36 born, and 1 made".
Like I noted previously in this thread, a unicorn.

 

I would nevertheless expect 3765LM’s chassis (Tipo 538/566) to be similarly 20mm longer in wheelbase like the other 330 LM with Series I GTO bodywork (i.e. #4381SA, with Chassis Tipo 574?).

 

I have seen people stating both 2400 and 2420 MM. I *believe* Steve Robertson stated in 'More GTO chat' that it was 2400 and that seems to be the last public comment- although I will have to let Steve correct me if I'm wrong about his post.
Dyke R. and Paul Pappalardo are who I would ask in terms of qualified sources who have first-hand examined the car that I know of.
Michael T. Lynch published work indicating that 3765LM's chassis was unique/one of one.
You need only go to page 4 in RM/Sotheby's report to see documents from Ferrari in 1962 referring to it as both a telaio 538/566 and a telaio 539/566.
It is one aspect of the car that I have never attempted to check.

The original coachwork it carries to this day is the 9th Series I 250 GTO body built.
One thing I don't understand about your post is the link to 4381 SA. Not questioning your expertise, just not understanding your linking them:
4381SA carries 330 LMB coachwork like its 3 brethren, rather than Series I GTO coachwork.

 

Did they postpone the auction? I could have sworn it was 9 am NY time, i remember converting it to my time zone. The website says it will start at 5.30 pm.

 

Hi Berke,
I was there yesterday afternoon looking at the car... the auction is tonight as you indicate.
I don't know if it had been listed previously as an earlier time but per standard practice for these sorts of things in new york city, evening would have made sense as the original time.
Dave

 

Oops, that was a typo. I meant 4561SA (not 4381SA).

 

If you didn't know, I did'nt see a post for it so here is a link to the live auction
https://www.youtube.com/live/F5ThCh1fMzY?si=fJwJnd-zH50hVEbp

 

4561 SA wheelbase was 2450 mm. 330 LMB wheelbase = 2500 mm. All the build sheets for 3765 state 2400 mm.

 

I’m not finding the 2400mm part.

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