The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

What are you trying to say? Are you saying that because Ferrari haven't sued Jim his car must be 0846? How do you know that Ferrari have not written or threatened him with legal action?
I am aware of a couple of fakes that Ferrari destroyed but there are very many fake Ferraris in existence, GTOs, SWBs etc, the manufacturers and the owners of which Ferrari clearly have taken no action against.

 

I agree. Ferraris desire to seek truth has its limitations. On a different subject entirely they let Roger Pensky have his way because Roger reminded them he's bigger.


Ferrari is great at intimidating the little guy. Its SOP.

 

Yes Jim is the first to call it real. Piper may have understood if he didn’t claim it he wouldn’t (as a constructor) get hammered by Ferrari legal. Or perhaps it was because of his history with the company they overlooked it. Or perhaps because this all went on before Ferrari went all Wall St. Still I think history shows the manufacturer of replicas is who Ferrari goes after.

I also think it’s possible/probable that Wall St Ferrari doesn’t visit the issue now because they don’t want to contribute to Jim’s revisionist history or get into a David and Goliath feud with him publicly which I’m sure he’d leverage to pump his race car co. In fact, I suspect Jim would love to be sued even if it proved his Piper car is fake just to tell his constructors story.

 

When it is known who made the chassis (not Ferrari or the supplier to Ferrari) why is this even a question?

 

It really isn’t a question anymore except to the most desperate.

 

If I owned (ahem) 0846, it would have been crushed by the Maranello people (notice the absence of use of a certain brand name here) a looong time ago.
The issue is, maybe, that we should also sue the "Maranello people" for betraying the original philosophy of that certain brand name.

 

Look at how many "cars" have been otherwise repossessed, or crushed, by the Guardia di Finanza, Belle Arti, et al. in Italy.
Switzerland, would happily contribute, being a notoriously "my side is more convenient" at the moment, tomorrow, we'll see

The 'long arm' of Maranellaw'...

Regards, Alberto

 

so who made the chassis then when it is no question anymore?

 

Allegretti and Silvano Cantelli.

 

IMO the Barchetta page lists the car's demise in 1968. Anything put in as a "note" doesn't figure in the history as I interpret it, since they have a convention of adding the most significant events in the car's life in bold type (even when wrong). The information in the notes could be removed but then again it can easily be ignored.

 

I would guess it won't be going back to Italy any time soon.

 

David Piper made the unsound bolt on adaptors to mount the Cross Bolt 3 litre 312 F1 engine that he later fitted. This is not a 4 litre P4 engine as Mr Glickenhaus states. The chassis was built to mount a projecting lug engine. Of course these chassis mounts are still in place.

 

This topic is much like a fire that’s been repeatedly stamped out and yet begins to smolder occasionally when (hot) air is reintroduced. I do hope you negotiated some sort of royalties on this thread when you posted it!

 

hello wayne
20 yrs on. time flies. you started with a 250 2+2. what fcars followed since?

 

Rob loves it.

 

Well, the thread WAS a debate about whether or not Jim's car is Ferrari's #0846. One of the reasons the thread remains active is because although the debate has concluded and has proved Jim's car is not Ferrari's #0846, that the thread remains in the main vintage forum, and has not been relegated to the Recreations and Non Period Rebodies section, this leads many who take little notice or don't take any notice of the thread to believe that the debate is still ongoing.

 

Apparently the debate has not yet concluded,...when the car is offered for sale is when the lawyers will be available to pursue the inevitable outcome; the overwhelming resources will crush the layman's position. That is more than likely the viable ending.

 

In any debate there are always people like yourself who still say the world is flat.

 

Respectfully, I can't disagree more. Everyone is now aware of what this car is and isn't.
People can believe what they like but no one with real money will ever pay more than the value of a very good replica.

 

Everyone can see the court houses as they disappear over the horizon, which has nothing to do with the car in question, or my point.

Eventually, as the court houses, and lawyers disappear over the horizon you will see "your" car parked in front of one, with paperwork to follow. This will have little to do with proving anything and more to do with the costs and weight of the legal system.

As an aside, I would be pleased to drive the **** out of the car in question,.. street legal in 50 states and most countries....yes Sir,.."people like myself".

 

@3500 GT

I don't think you'd want to "drive the **** out of the car in question" on those improper tires...

 

Oh yes...the impropriety of the rubber, an outrage.

My first modification would be to install a cup holder, tastefully done to period specifications.

 

That's where you find the only impropriety?

Got it...

Here's a proposition:

I'll buy this car for the ~$1 Million and sell it to you for $5 Million, representing a SIGNIFICANT discount to other 250 Californias being sold.

https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/first-drive-gto-engineering-replica-of-ferrari-250-gt-swb-california-spyder-1234638004/

Note, these cars are probably more accurate replicas...

 

Done!

I'm positive I could sell the car at a healthy profit over your $5M purchase price, I know a gentleman in Riyadh that likes shiny red cars, with cup holders.