Ferrari Boss Drives Full EV Ferrari

Pastaboy1980 · Nov 25, 2023

There is nothing more desperate than a professor in search of , funding , science is not based on consensus. I’m sure the lame moderator will ban me because he to is a socialist

Pastaboy1980 · Nov 25, 2023

willcrook said: ↑

what will happen is ferrari will be forced to sell out the brand because no one cares about sports car EV's, the brand name is so strong that there's so much money in producing cheaper cars for mass market. I think eventually their stock will suffer but just not for awhile
Click to expand...

I think the stock will be just fine
In fact they will sell stock certificates in carbon fiber

anunakki · Nov 26, 2023

360trev said: ↑

As a former VP of Engineering in Automotive sector working on EV's and founder of a Technical Consulting practice I have several points regarding electric vehicles. It is complicated.

Above all else yes, this is being forced by governments around the world. You either evolve or die. Ferrari just like Mercedes, VAG group and so forth do not really have a choice but to go all in on EV's. It has already passed tipping point.

EV tech is highly immature today but evolving very fast, watch how fast they change, particularly with regards to compromises with today's battery technology. I am betting within 20 years they will eclipse ICE in all the key areas that ‘most people’ care about where today they fall far short of acceptable. Let’s look at those cons as they are quite varied.

Battery Technology Con's:
a) Batteries catching fire due to thermal runaway or water ingress. They need to be kept 'just right', not too hot or too cold.
b) Battery cell energy density is basically 'terrible' (x25 less energy dense vs petroleum)
c) Range (due to energy density)
d) Slow charging times
e) Longevity due to memory issues (software algorithms can help in the BMS but again entire battery tech needs to evolve)
f) Repair of small numbers of cells (currently not possible on most brands due to construction or chipset security/locked BMS, etc.)
g) Environmental recycling of batteries

Many billions are being spent on addressing these 'technical' issues but in reality todays pure EV's "suck" for long journeys but commuting short distances is what many people (particularly in Europe) do so whatever you think about them they are probably 'good enough' for many 'use cases'.

Battery Charging Infrastructure Technology Con's:
a) Charging network infrastructure immaturity
b) Charging standards incompatibility
c) Electricity network isn't able to supply anticipated demand

This is a difficult one because it’s not just charging infrastructure its entire power grid capacity too and the ability to deliver demand. Many billions required here. This won’t happen overnight and will take decades of major investment and/or technological change such as Cold Fusion.

Repair Costs/Liability
a) High repair costs of EV cars (today while they are still 'new')
b) High insurance costs of EV cars
c) Low availability of spare parts
d) Low knowledge to repair

I would suggest that Insurance costs have doubled this year entirely due to the EV car ‘problem\ so ICE car owners are being made to pay for EV cars with higher premiums. It’s not perfect by any stretch so now let’s look at the pluses;

EV Pro's
It took nearly a century to refine the combustion engine. However with today's technology and billions in R&D are being poured in so EV's will evolve within 20-30 years by around 10-15 generations (my rough guess) before it eclipses it in every measurable way. Biofuels are ultimately just a 'stop gap' until maturity happens. They will at least allow 'old' combustion engines to exist and hopefully we will still be allowed to drive them in 20 years’ time (not a given if we don't fight for our rights here, particularly in Europe where combustion engines are already being banned from town).

Energy Storage/Capture
a) The storage tech will get dramatically more energy dense, they will get better and range will improve by orders of magnitude. This will also reduce weight.
b) Fires will become a non-issue once lithium is replaced.
c) Energy transfer times will be dramatically improved. Already charging speeds are improving in the cellphones with 250W charges for your tiny 5000ma battery so it charges in 5 mins from 20% to 80%. What will that need 25kW charger per car!
d) Reparability will change with improved technology.
e) Costs will reduce over time.

So in other words everyone today is playing 'Early Adopter' - Everyone buying an EV today is in a global planned 'beta test', just like the Co jab was

Considerations on Performance

Ferrari has always pushed performance but Drive motors are dramatically more efficient (97% +) vs combustion and have instant torque so even 'cheap' cars have as much performance as expensive ones. This means the sports car industry needs to move away from differentiation purely on 0-60's, quarter mile, etc. This levels everyone down, you are only limited now by traction and the software algorithms you use. Shock horror but Kia will be no slower than Ferrari.

More expensive cars will get 4 driven wheels which will at least allow trick software algorithms to be applied to utilize full torque vectoring technology as some sort of key performance/handling differentiator.

Car Ownership
For many years now in Europe people have been 'pushed' towards 'lease agreements' so they don't ever own the vehicle. Very few people buy a new car outright now, it’s all on PCP (Personal Car Plan). I think this was deliberate because it makes it easier to force EV's upon the masses.

I think the whole transport for masses may go 'Pay as you use' and ultimately this will be driven by Ai so 'self-driving' will become less and less prevalent. Again enjoy it while you still can. At some point I anticipate driving in towns will become 'illegal' too.

Summary
It doesn't really matter what we think it’s happening anyway, don't get mad but do KEEP your ICE car if you love it and enjoy self-driving while you still can.
Click to expand...

Awesome post. We should sticky it

Pastaboy1980 · Nov 27, 2023

360trev said: ↑

As a former VP of Engineering in Automotive sector working on EV's and founder of a Technical Consulting practice I have several points regarding electric vehicles. It is complicated.

Above all else yes, this is being forced by governments around the world. You either evolve or die. Ferrari just like Mercedes, VAG group and so forth do not really have a choice but to go all in on EV's. It has already passed tipping point.

EV tech is highly immature today but evolving very fast, watch how fast they change, particularly with regards to compromises with today's battery technology. I am betting within 20 years they will eclipse ICE in all the key areas that ‘most people’ care about where today they fall far short of acceptable. Let’s look at those cons as they are quite varied.

Battery Technology Con's:
a) Batteries catching fire due to thermal runaway or water ingress. They need to be kept 'just right', not too hot or too cold.
b) Battery cell energy density is basically 'terrible' (x25 less energy dense vs petroleum)
c) Range (due to energy density)
d) Slow charging times
e) Longevity due to memory issues (software algorithms can help in the BMS but again entire battery tech needs to evolve)
f) Repair of small numbers of cells (currently not possible on most brands due to construction or chipset security/locked BMS, etc.)
g) Environmental recycling of batteries

Many billions are being spent on addressing these 'technical' issues but in reality todays pure EV's "suck" for long journeys but commuting short distances is what many people (particularly in Europe) do so whatever you think about them they are probably 'good enough' for many 'use cases'.

Battery Charging Infrastructure Technology Con's:
a) Charging network infrastructure immaturity
b) Charging standards incompatibility
c) Electricity network isn't able to supply anticipated demand

This is a difficult one because it’s not just charging infrastructure its entire power grid capacity too and the ability to deliver demand. Many billions required here. This won’t happen overnight and will take decades of major investment and/or technological change such as Cold Fusion.

Repair Costs/Liability
a) High repair costs of EV cars (today while they are still 'new')
b) High insurance costs of EV cars
c) Low availability of spare parts
d) Low knowledge to repair

I would suggest that Insurance costs have doubled this year entirely due to the EV car ‘problem\ so ICE car owners are being made to pay for EV cars with higher premiums. It’s not perfect by any stretch so now let’s look at the pluses;

EV Pro's
It took nearly a century to refine the combustion engine. However with today's technology and billions in R&D are being poured in so EV's will evolve within 20-30 years by around 10-15 generations (my rough guess) before it eclipses it in every measurable way. Biofuels are ultimately just a 'stop gap' until maturity happens. They will at least allow 'old' combustion engines to exist and hopefully we will still be allowed to drive them in 20 years’ time (not a given if we don't fight for our rights here, particularly in Europe where combustion engines are already being banned from town).

Energy Storage/Capture
a) The storage tech will get dramatically more energy dense, they will get better and range will improve by orders of magnitude. This will also reduce weight.
b) Fires will become a non-issue once lithium is replaced.
c) Energy transfer times will be dramatically improved. Already charging speeds are improving in the cellphones with 250W charges for your tiny 5000ma battery so it charges in 5 mins from 20% to 80%. What will that need 25kW charger per car!
d) Reparability will change with improved technology.
e) Costs will reduce over time.

So in other words everyone today is playing 'Early Adopter' - Everyone buying an EV today is in a global planned 'beta test', just like the Co jab was

Considerations on Performance

Ferrari has always pushed performance but Drive motors are dramatically more efficient (97% +) vs combustion and have instant torque so even 'cheap' cars have as much performance as expensive ones. This means the sports car industry needs to move away from differentiation purely on 0-60's, quarter mile, etc. This levels everyone down, you are only limited now by traction and the software algorithms you use. Shock horror but Kia will be no slower than Ferrari.

More expensive cars will get 4 driven wheels which will at least allow trick software algorithms to be applied to utilize full torque vectoring technology as some sort of key performance/handling differentiator.

Car Ownership
For many years now in Europe people have been 'pushed' towards 'lease agreements' so they don't ever own the vehicle. Very few people buy a new car outright now, it’s all on PCP (Personal Car Plan). I think this was deliberate because it makes it easier to force EV's upon the masses.

I think the whole transport for masses may go 'Pay as you use' and ultimately this will be driven by Ai so 'self-driving' will become less and less prevalent. Again enjoy it while you still can. At some point I anticipate driving in towns will become 'illegal' too.

Summary
It doesn't really matter what we think it’s happening anyway, don't get mad but do KEEP your ICE car if you love it and enjoy self-driving while you still can.
Click to expand...

The batteries are recycled like my computer and cellphone, I can assure you that recycling is a total farce.

I look forward to a world of endless nuclear energy poisoning our world with Toxic waste.

my dad built ligo and I am former biochemist who sold his energy company

I can assure you that climate science is as much of a farce as the Zootonic covid origin

Truth justice and the American way apparently that’s only a slogan for comic books.

Pastaboy1980 · Nov 27, 2023

I love the toast comment I’m keeping my F8 going to drive it around when all the Evs are locked at 55 mph

Pastaboy1980 · Nov 27, 2023

anunakki said: ↑

Awesome post. We should sticky it
Click to expand...

anunakki said: ↑

Awesome post. We should sticky it
Click to expand...

Solid State · Nov 29, 2023

BJK said: ↑

There are already 2,000 'hp' EV's with 4 motor, torque vectoring and 0-60 in 1.9 sec (limited by tires/physics).
Where else is there for Ferrari to go?..
Click to expand...

Shields.

And lots of flaps and gills when Manzoni gets a hold of it.

willrace · Nov 29, 2023

Solid State said: ↑

Shields.

And lots of flaps and gills when Manzoni gets a hold of it.
Click to expand...

You forgot badges. And cavallinos. And stickers.
LOTS of the above, as foretold by the ahead-of-its-time GialloGuido:

For those times when you want to scream that you're "Special" but not in your car:

I suppose that enough of it could alleviate the pain of drivi-..... errrrr, of travelling in a stylized appliance, along with your remaining dignity.

Newjoint · Nov 29, 2023

willrace said: ↑

You forgot badges. And cavallinos. And stickers.
LOTS of the above, as foretold by the ahead-of-its-time GialloGuido:

For those times when you want to scream that you're "Special" but not in your car:

I suppose that enough of it could alleviate the pain of drivi-..... errrrr, of travelling in a stylized appliance, along with your remaining dignity.
Click to expand...

Don’t forget the Camaro(that car again!)rear lights and a fake rear exhaust!

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

Albert-LP · Dec 7, 2023

Yes, it will be a true Ferrari, despite being an EV only. But it's the end of an era and definitely not for me: I'm too old for such a thing.

Ciao

Pastaboy1980 · Dec 7, 2023

Albert-LP said: ↑

Yes, it will be a true Ferrari, despite being an EV only. But it's the end of an era and definitely not for me: I'm too old for such a thing. Haha

Ciao
Click to expand...

day355 · Dec 17, 2023

Solid State said: ↑

And lots of flaps and gills when Manzoni gets a hold of it.
Click to expand...

Car is awful...less than zero

of2worlds · Dec 17, 2023

day355 said: ↑

Car is awful...less than zero
Click to expand...

And yet Enrico Galliera continues to smile...

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Doc Chaz · Jan 3, 2024

"Such a sad time to be alive: World governments pushing all automakers to move to EV and the average consumer, in the US, gravitating toward SUVs. This is not really a Ferrari problem. It is a problem with our governments."

Fools, a world inhabited by gullible fools.

Newjoint · Jan 3, 2024

of2worlds said: ↑

And yet Enrico Galliera continues to smile...

View attachment 3619542
Click to expand...

He looks absolutely giddy

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

willcrook · Jan 3, 2024

Doc Chaz said: ↑

"Such a sad time to be alive: World governments pushing all automakers to move to EV and the average consumer, in the US, gravitating toward SUVs. This is not really a Ferrari problem. It is a problem with our governments."

Fools, a world inhabited by gullible fools.
Click to expand...

kinda but Ferrari can stand for whatever they wish to stand for, or at least they could before being listed on the stock market

no one can take the back catalog away though, that's where the beauty is

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