Real car longer and lower. That rendering is from a Roma (and doesn’t even look right for a Roma) There’s no room for a V12. The proto cars are long and low.
True. Looks taller and more muscular. The low and close viewing angle can be partially blamed for this though.
I am looking to purchase a new Ferrari in the next 12 months. Been eyeing the F167 or maybe the Roma 2. The Roma 2 mainly because it'd be cheaper and it'll be my first purchase, I also really like everything about the Roma body style, besides the front grill and am hoping that will be changed on the Roma 2 One caveat is I am 6' 6" (long legs). I think I might be ok with the sports seat, but really not sure. Do you guys have any recommendations. I am primarily looking at yet to be released models, but I am definitely open to other suggestions
I’m not sure if that matters much to this market. It certainly doesn’t matter to me. It is all about the beautiful NA V12. That is what makes it competitive IMO. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Who are they competing with? This is no longer the flagship of the lineup, rather a niche model if any. The managers just got the email to come to Miami, but haven't been told exactly what will be revealed. Also, they haven't been asked for any list, nor has the factory sent them a list re F167. Since this first iteration will not be....errrrr....should not be a limited edition (yet), that is a good sign for us non big wig schmucks slumming it in our 812s. Topic never came up as I have a 12, so never talked about non 12 owners. That's all I found out the other day.
The spy shots of the Roma "fitted with a V12" is possibly a Roma M. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
In a car with well north of 800hp adding 20-25 hp of hybrid assistance just adds pointless weight, cost and complexity. You will never ever notice that small an increase. It’s pointless.
Can you use 100% of the 812's 800 hp ? Congratulations, it's time for you to race at Sebring and Le Mans !
For the two hundredth time this is the mulotipo of the Ferrari F167. The chassis, the engine, the components are brand new fitted under an old body in this case the Roma. It's the first stage during the development of a new car. This is the F167. No Roma M. No Roma V12. No Roma.
He means “will adding 25hp without hybrid assistance be enough, or does it need a hybrid system to add an extra 150-200hp?”
I’m 6’2” and the 812SF fit me with room to spare. The 812GTS did not however even with the top down as the seat back didn’t recline enough and the leg room was minimally compromised as well but enough to make it more uncomfortable on longer rides. Hopefully the F167 spider version will fix that. I haven’t sat in a ROMA so cannot comment Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
The only rival of the 812 is the Aston Martin One 77, which is no longer produced, rest assured that the 2.1 ton Lambo is not a rival of the Ferrari. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TnRtzvfHsq0
To be clear, I would love nothing more than keeping a pure V12 engine without hybrid assist. I was simply playing devil’s advocate here. Unless the car goes on a substantial weight diet, it could become like what mclaren 750S was to 720S. The new multimatic suspension system from the SUV by itself adds 100 lbs if they use it in the 812 replacement. The GPF bricks by themselves add another 30-40 lbs. So that 20-30 hp wont be enough to maintain numbers on paper. And again, this isnt my thinking at all (I am actually a purist and hate this line of thinking), but numbers on paper have a profound impact on marketing and its all about marketing and making money. At the end of the day, if the new car is only 30 hp more but is heavier, has digital steering, digital tach, and doesnt sound as good - all that accomplishes is keeping 812 SF values strong. Thats not good for Ferrari HQ. It may be good for 812 SF owners. The digital controls on the steering wheel and the digital tach really werent very well received at all. The tach is really laggy and feels like a video game and the haptic buttons on the wheel are very counter intuitive. Why would anyone pay $100-$150k more for the same V12 that has “only” 30 hp more, doesnt sound as good, has unproven technology that can really be problematic (suspension, higher redline, etc) when they can keep their current 812? If you bought an 812 for $400k, it will be worth $300k if you want to order the new car and the new car will easily be a $500-$550k sticker car. So your “upgrade” cost is $250k for 30 hp and and fancier suspension? Sorry, just doesnt make much marketing sense.
If this is your view, you under estimate Ferrari. They aren’t stupid. They know they have to deliver a significant step. Trust the process, and prepare to be positively surprised.
I think the waiting list for this car will be the longest ever. Power through numbers has no bearing on this iconic powertrain, as we stand, because the only indisputable reality is that the V12 is Ferrari's "history and intrinsic genetics". No one can use 100% of an 812 on open roads, except for professional drivers. So, there will be a lot more than there is to be in 167! And when you buy This car is first and foremost, and above all, I hope, to taste the experience of the senses through the visual, the touch of the curves, the sound, the physical sensations of the V12.Si it is to talk about power figures at the society dinner, better to move on and look for something else in the range (I am not talking about you). Personally, I think all of the 812 owners here will be looking to get 167 !!!
So thats my point - “significant step” and a slight power bump dont seem to be aligned. Understood but we are talking past each other. Everything you said could be experienced at half the cost via 812 Superfast. While F12 was a "handful" and had some faults, 812 addressed those and I don't really see a long list of issues with it that this new car would need to fix. In fact, the prices of 812 SFs have been relatively strong because of a how good car it is. So while I agree with everything you are saying about Ferrari V12s, I just dont understand how/why anyone would want to get the newer car (besides the crowd who wants the newer toy). Are there any burning issues with 812s that addressing them will make the owners take a $200-$250k upgrade surcharge? I dont think so. Again, let me re-emphasize... Some people with lots of FU money will always the get the newer car. There are those of us with lots of disposable income that had Ferrari come up with a new V12 engine every 6 months, they'd get the tailor made version every 6 months. But besides those people, there is the rest of the market that makes up other customers. Because of how good 812 Superfast is, I just dont see Ferrari succeeding in luring those customers in losing a ton of money just for 30 more hp with a fancier suspension. This is why I think, the new car has to be more than just the same engine with a higher redline and hence it either has to go on an extensive weight loss diet (300-400 lbs) and get a 10,000 rpm redline OR get a hybrid powerplant or something else. F12 to 812 was a huge step because of RWS and EPS. Also 812 sounds godly compared to F12 and F12 already sounded so good. The GPF V12s dont really sound the same as 2018-2019 V12s. 812 SF is like a sweet spot of good power, good handling, good sound, enough tech before everything goes into too much digital. We have all seen how this turned out in the Porsche world. As much as the 992 GT3 was/is an amazing car, the 991 is a more special car that really keeps its value more. Its the more desirable car by purists because of its analog nature. 992 is too digitalized. Ferrari is doing the same thing here and it looks like its the replay. If they kept the analog dash, and buttons on the steering wheel, kept the N/A V12 but increased redline to 10,000 and then loose 300 lbs - then yes that'd be a special car. But you know it and I know it, thats not going to happen.
Yes, of course, but let's take the bet. Passion is inherently irrational, and the presence of the 167 is very different from the 812, with all the respect for personal tastes and choices that I have for 812 owners
