78 GTS US oil Separator behavior when driven hard. | FerrariChat

78 GTS US oil Separator behavior when driven hard.

Discussion in '308/328' started by bl10, Dec 4, 2023.

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  1. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    442
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    This is really long but I'm looking for some advice from those who have more experience than I do with running the 308 hard when cornering. I've been on a couple of group drives and really pushed the car to keep up. Most of the cars are newer with considerably more hp and wider tires. There were long stretches' of very winding road. Rpm was between 67 and 77 hundred and constant up and down shifting for what seemed like forever. Many of the turns required almost full lock to get around. Also lots of full throttle straight line acceleration bang shifting at 77 hundred (like a drag race) to fairly high speeds. It would be nice to have an extra 100 hp on tap and better tires. I'm running 205 / 70 14 on front and 225 / 60 14 on the rear. Stock suspension lowered two inches in front.
    What's happening is that once in a while the car following me sees a large puff of oil smoke from the exhaust and after the car sits for a couple of hours there is oil smoke when I start it. Its only happened twice and both times it was after a very hard drive. It's like oil running down the valve guides but I know the seals are good.
    The engine is in pretty good shape considering it has about 120 k miles on it. Good compression and leak down and it burns very little oil.
    I've noticed a couple of times in the past there is lite trace of oil in the air box coming from the oil separator breather but after this last drive I decided to check and found a heavy oil film on both the bottom and top in the air box, more than I've ever seen before but I don't think I've ever driven it as hard as on this drive.
    I pulled the oil separator and it seems fine. There apparently is a baffle in it as I can't stick a flexible implement through it.
    I blew through the line that goes from the separator to the block (pan) and it is not blocked but there was some back pressure and I heard a gurgling sound like its entering the pan below the oil level.
    The oil level is about 1/4 to 1/3 inch above max both hot, after a few minuets to let the oil drain back into the pan and cold. It has a Baldwin filter on it and they hold oil indefinitely so there is no change from hot to cold.
    I run it a little over full as I've had the oil pressure light come on when I run it half way between max and min when cornering hard.
    I wonder if the occasional smoke while running hard and after sitting is oil misting into the carbs. The air box top directedly over the carbs is clean probably due to stand off but the rest of it has a heavy oil film.
    Would running it a quart to a quart and 1/2 overfull cause this.(possible foaming)
    I'm running 20 -50 Castrol Synthetic blend with a quart of Lucas oil stabilizer.

    Thanks for your time.
    Barry
     
  2. Alex308qv

    Alex308qv Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
    405
    PA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    I’m sure you’ll get technical advice but I felt sorry for your 308 reading this. I recommend joining a group where you’re running with comparable period cars like 180 HP Porsche 911s, or upgrading to a 355/360/430.
     
    4right likes this.
  3. Anthony Rapuano

    Anthony Rapuano Karting

    Aug 16, 2022
    211
    CT
    Full Name:
    Anthony V Rapuano, Jr.
    Barry,
    I've got to think that overfilling the oil by 1 to 1 1/2 qts. is contributing to your periodic clouds of oil smoke. I have a dry sump 308, so no concern about oil starvation in tight corners. That being said, I have to think that unless you are running repeated circles on a skid pad, the occasional low oil pressure light should not be a worry. I believe there have been posts about the oil starvation concern in the past that may be helpful to you. I am not sure if the wet sump cars have some type of baffling in the sump to lessen starvation on hard cornering, or if there is an aftermarket sump baffle that can be added. Seems to me that the overfill is a bit excessive. Hope you hear from the more knowledgeable F-chatters as I, too, am interested in this topic and their opinions. Also, have to think that there has been no harm done to the engine other than maybe oiling the spark plugs.
     
  4. bitsobrits

    bitsobrits Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Nov 12, 2011
    750
    Omaha, NE area, US
    Full Name:
    Steve
    There is an aftermarket sump baffle for the wet sump cars. At least one version is sold by SuperFormance, and designs can be found via google search.
     
  5. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    442
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    Thanks guys. I'm aware of the extra baffle as well as the threads on the low oil pressure lite on continuous hard cornering. I do think that overfilling with oil would cause foaming, assuming the crank hits the oil, and more pressure in the crank case along with excessive oil in the cam covers which in turn could overwhelm the oil separator and pump oil mist into the air box causing the oil smoke. There is no oil residue on the carbs but there is a lot of gas particulate standoff at high revs which should dissolve it. It might also explain the smoke on start up as excessive oil in the cam covers on shutdown could possibility get past the valve guide seals. I said before I know their OK but in thinking about it I only changed the 8 on the rear head when I replaced the valves so the front ones could be loose. I know the valve guides on the rear head are a little worn. Not excessive but not perfect so it holds the front ones are the same. The only problem with the valve seals passing oil is that it doesn't smoke at all on long down hill coasts with it in gear when it has lots of vacuum. My experience has been if the valve seals are leaking there will be a big puff of oil smoke after a long down hill coast when you hit the gas again.
    I'll look into the extra baffle and also lower the oil level a bit.
    I'm not sure if the oil separator drain back should be above or below the oil level or if it even makes any differece.
    I'm probably over thinking this but am considering tracking the car and want to understand the oiling system.

    Thanks again
    Barry
     
  6. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,355
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    The oil pan reservoir capacity is larger then you'd think. The crank sits behind a scraper/baffle windage tray, way above and offset from the pan. You'd have to run in excess of 15 qts to get close.

    The oil return feed from the separator feeds into a casting passage that empties at the bottom of the pan, so the oil level will always be high enough to create a seal so that the low pressure pulls from the cylinder heads. Separator circuit can't have an open pressure feed direct to the crank case or it'll just suck oil out.

    100k+ miles. Original. Not surprised it's burning oil, good ol wear. Highly suggest that if you want to keep running her at 9/10's then a go thru on seals, guides and check piston/bore etc.
     

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