New pilot license thoughts

I began my training at the age of 38 and I am now 51 and love the freedom it brings. There are a few ways to answer your question but it all depends on how you plan on using your PPL once you get it (extremely rewarding). If money is not a concern then begin your training with the SR20, even though the avionics are advanced you will enjoy it more than the C172 or Warrior. People will say the avionics are too advanced for a beginner but ultimately, there are more and more aircrafts coming out with glass cockpits each day.

More importantly, you need to find a CFI that you REALLY like and are most comfortable with. Also, NEVER give a school one lump sum of money for training. Pay per hour!!!!

Feel free to contact me via [email protected]. Always have time to talk about planes.

John

 

Medical first. There's zero point in doing any of the training if you can't get past the medical. You probably just need a 3rd class is your goal is to bore holes in the sky. Ask around, there will be some AMEs to use and others to avoid.

If it's for the kid, same thing, but easier for a child to get past the medical. Get a class 1 if possible. Can't solo until 16th birthday on a powered aircraft, but can solo at 14 in a glider. Be very careful on the AME for the child, a screwup by the doc could result in never being able to fly.

DO NOT allow anyone to diagnose your child with ADAH.

 

I've found that if travel is your goal, the only sane way is IFR. VFR has too many limitations and instrument flight is far safer.

Before deciding on an aircraft, define your 90% mission and look for planes that can do it. The SR22 models are great beginner aircraft but be sure your local flight school supports Cirrus. Only Cirrus certified CFIs can train in them due to the parachute system and other unique to Cirrus systems like avionics and autopilot.

I'd definitely skip the 172 and go directly to a G1000 aircraft like the Cirrus if you can swing it. Check out the DA40 from diamond. Excellent and easy to fly aircraft that's rugged and safe.

 

The Cirrus sounds like a great plane, if you're thinking of going that route I would echo John's comments that you should do your training in one.

I would also concur that you should make sure you find a flight instructor that works well for you. I started, but wasn't able to finish my training and part of that was that I never really trusted my instructor. Particularly doing stall training I was very worried that I would put us into a spin and wasn't very confident that she would be able to recover it.

I work not too far from those schools and some folks fly out of them. I can ask around when I'm back in the office next week if anyone has any opinions on those schools.

 

I don’t personally believe it matters what you learn to fly in.

But, it’s been almost 50 years and I know times change.

I think if it were me starting out again I’d go the cheapest route possible.

 

Start with your medical. That will decide if you can get a certificate.

I earned my certificate at 35, wish I did it earlier.

Define your mission and then pick the plane.

If you just absolutely get there fly commercially.

Getting a certification is a license to learn. Once you decided you can stop learning then stop flying.

 

Just remember that to make a small fortune in aviation, start with a large fortune.

 

Price out insurance before you get your heart set on a certain plane

 

That’s not a mission. A mission is what you will use the plane for:
60% 1 hour flights for hamburgers
15% for 2 hour trip to our vacation home 2 hour flight time.
15% training
10% 3+ hour trips.

This helps you decide a plane. Unless you have an endless budget and just don’t care and will fork up all the money you need at anytime.

Do you take any medication? Ever have a dui? Been arrested? Detained? Lots of speeding tickets? Owe back taxes? See a therapist? Child support? Did you once take a crap so big you passed out? All this and much much much more can get you a denial. Do the medical first.

Do not charter your personal plane.

You need 1500 hours before you can get your commercial which is needed for charter flights. For most pilots that is more than a lifetime of flying. Average per year for GA is around 30 hours.

 

I am a firm believer in starting out the old way. Preferably a Piper cub or second choice is a Cessna 150 or a 172 if you are of a larger size. I feel very strongly that by starting out in these type of aircraft you will develop the skills that would hopefully avoid one of the most common fatal errors, Stall Spin. The Cub will teach you an incredible amount of coordination and a feel for the airplane that is not possible with the faster, bigger aircraft.
Before I bought a trainer for my kids I asked Steve Hinton what he used for his son to learn, his son has won the Reno races at least 6 or 7 times and he has the world speed record in a P-51. His dad's answer was a Cessna 150.
I soloed in a 150 in high school in 1978 and I still fly them today. Getting a cub soon to go with my Taylorcraft L-2.

For your son the EAA has a scholarship program which will pay for 11,000 of his trains. Not sure of the age requirements.

Very easy to pay for an hour in various airplanes and see what you like before committing.

 

My opinions:

What do you weight and how tall are you? This will have a big effect on what plane you use for training and ownership.

Ground School: I would just buy Sporty's for $299. Your son can even get it for free if he goes on a EAA young eagle's flight for 15mins. With Sporty's, you and your son can watch it anytime. You can watch it while on treadmill, driving, etc. You can re-watch it as many times as you want. The in-person session may well be taught by a relatively new person. I have seen some of the people who I know teach ground school in-person, and they just don't have a deep knowledge. Plus, you have to drive somewhere, wasting time.

Where to learn: Brandywine looks good. No tower, not too long or wide. Lancaster(from personal experience) doesn't have the friendliest tower for students. You will be competing with big planes. Runway is so big that you will be afraid to land on the 2000x30ft airports later. The best instructor is the old guy who is also the A&P. Nothing better than learning in a plane with the same guy who maintains it. These guys are more likely found at the smallest airports. Plan on flyable days only 1/2 the week. Wind and rain will cancel the rest. Do you have a regular job? If so, that will slow training a lot. Try to do early morning or late evening for first several lessons to avoid turbulence. If you can fit in a 150 or light sport, you might be able to get aircraft hours for around $100. 172/cherokee you are upto $130min. Bigger airports generally are more expensive. Instructor $40min, thought there is a club in northern MD listing $25/hr instructor. Big commercial schools can be much more. And big airports tend to attract young instructors building hours. This can be a pain if they leave for a job halfway through your training. The old retired guys can be cranky, don't want to be out after 5pm, can't see well for the night hours, but still thing $40/hr is decent(I still prefer the old guys, probably cause I am one, now)

Medical: disclosing less is better. If you ever got admitted to a hospital(and you disclose) you have to bring the discharge paperwork to the AME. If you don't you get a deferral, which takes months to clear. Unless you really want to do commercial, consider going basic med, after passing a medical. You basically don't deal with FAA medical with basic med. And if you fail basic med, you can still fly light sport. If you fail any FAA med, you can never fly light sport. 48yrs is getting old(sorry). It's not an age that keeps you from flying but it's an age that can make flying a hassle due to minor middle age health issues that have to be reported.

Planes: Cessna150: low useful load. Like 300lbs with full fuel, so your instructor has to be really light. Now, if you are out in the boonies with no FAA, people overload these all the time, but if you are near Philly, be careful. I know an examiner that just lost their lic in York, PA due to a FAA ramp check. Him and another heavy guy were asked for a weight and bal calc in a 150. The 150 is barely faster than a car. Not an issue for lessons, but gets old quick later. Carb ice with Continental engine happens due to isolated carburetor. Lowish engine TBO. But, overall ownership is cheap.

Cessna 172: 1968 and newer have Lycoming engine which doesn't have icing issues(intake air goes through oil pan). 1975 and earlier have the yoke up high(nice if you are tall). 1973 and later models have a STOL wing with drooped leading edge the last couple feet. Big improvement in control and takeoff. Decent speed for tolerable cross country performance. By airplanes standards, it's very comfortable. I'm 6-2 and someone my size can sit behind me. You sit upright, with legs going straight down, which is a very space efficient setup. 150-160horses is enough for a light family most of the year if you don't top off fuel. Just not really hot days. In the summer if high load, you really want to be in the air early morning. Most passengers much prefer a high wing, since you can't see through aluminum!

Cherokee: Only used Lycoming(very good). "Nobody does cheap like Piper". Fuselage didn't get stretched until 1973. Before 73 seating in rear is very tight. At 6-2, there is 1" of leg room behind me. After 73, there is 6" of space(still not much). This is caused by a low yoke and low seating so that your legs have to stretch out in front of you. Wide landing gear and pre-75 wing make ground handling easy. 1975 PA-28's got a new Cessna-like wing(except Cherokee140 which kept old wing). Takeoff's are much better. Landings more floaty(good and bad). One door gets tiring.

Cirrus: Waaay higher budget than 172/cherokee. You have to have a hanger. That might be a several year wait in the Philly suburbs. Roomy, fast, comfortable, modern.

 

May i put in my two cents? I started my flying in a 1937 60 HP Cub with no brakes and a spring leaf tail skid. I weighed 150 and my instructor weighed the same so there was no problem with weight. That little airplane is a perfect tool to show a student how to use and to coordinate the controls. If you don't , it will wallow all over the place and tell you to smooth it up. I can't remember all of the model numbers but I flew all of the Cubs that came out up to the 115HP Lycoming version. They were all great airplanes on which to learn and I always felt more comfortable with the stick and tight cockpit. I flew all the Cessnas and got my PPL in a 140 but the two birds that I will always favor above all are the Cubs and the Stearman. You have no idea how many hours I fly when I'm away from household duties or drifting off to sleep. Chasing buzzards in the Cub or putting the Stearman through every maneuver I can think of. How rich can you get?

 

I would agree pretty strongly that you should start out in a Cessna 150 or 172 (or Cherokee, which I learned in) with basic instruments and no fancy screens. There is time enough to learn that stuff later, and honestly it's pretty easy. You want your eyes outside.

I would not start in a taildragger, personally. You can (and should) do that later. I wanted my kids to learn in my Citabria, but at the end of the day it was easier and better to find an instructor who is part of an established program with a proven curriculum and just do it in a 150. My daughter got her license, and then we did her tailwheel transition-- amazingly, she let me be her CFI for that part!

The most important thing is finding a good instructor. My kids started off with a lousy instructor, and basically wasted a summer. The next summer they got a fantastic instructor and had a much better experience.

I should add that it is really hard to judge the quality of an instructor, even for me-- and I'm an ATP and CFI myself. It became obvious over time because my kids would ask me questions about stuff that they were being taught, and it seemed odd, but still he seemed nice enough, so who knows...

 

@Mondog1 - For large men, the high wing Cessnas are really ideal. They have a high load carrying capacity, are super easy to get in and out, and they are simple to fly. You might look at a newer 182 as a starter plane. They can really haul and have a good range to boot. The high wing aircraft have an additional benefit of blocking out the sun and having large windows that open.. The groovier planes like the SR-22 and Diamond DA40 are butt roasters in the summer. The windows don't open and sitting on the tarmac trying to enter in a flight plan when it's 140F in the cabin is unpleasant to say the least.

You'll love the 182. It's a good plane to do initial training and can keep you going throughout your flying life. Get one with a glass cockpit, preferably Garmin. They're far less expensive than an SR-22 for a low time, well equipped model.

 

290 lbs will limit your options. Light Sport is out. Even though they list useful loads of like 600 lbs, if you actually read the POH, most have a maximum seat capacity of 220-250 lbs per seat(I guess due to the lightly built structure?). Cessna 150/152, Piper Tomahawk, Beechcraft Skipper, Grumman A1's are all out. A Piper Colt or Piper Cherokee140 are low cost options that will work. A Cessna 172 will double that cost. A 182 with some glass will double that cost again.

It's pretty hard to get hurt in these basic planes. Top 3(per your request): 1. Pulling out the mixture knob(or lever) instead of throttle knob to descend. 2. Not being decisive on landing(picture 2). 3. Either go around or land, but not being sure is an issue. Not controlling speed on landing (picture 1). 4. Bad weather. The other 3 will hurt you. This is most likely to kill you.

It's a pretty rare hobbies these days. Even in semi-busy areas, you are rarely any closer than a 1/4 mile to another plane. ADSB makes spotting other planes easy in areas where it is required. The scariest part is getting back in a car and driving down a two lane road, and having cars within 5ft of you at a closing rate of 120mph. Makes flying feel very safe.
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I’m not sure why people are suggesting getting a higher class medical than you need at the moment, and perhaps a different thread is warranted as I’m willing to hear that out. A more stringent medical is asking for something to be found that might disqualify you for any medical. Suggesting your kid get a class I makes zero sense. Get a class III (as he should), like every other private pilot needs…eye test, listen to your heart and lungs, pee in the cup to make sure you’re not diabetic, and your off to the airfield for two years! Pilots of America is a way better place to get your flying advice…it’s F-Chat for pilots.

M.D./F-16 Pilot/CFII/MEI

 

12-18 years old, but practically 16-18 for our chapter selections as we want them to learn quickly through PPL.

 

The one and only reason to get a higher than class III medical is if you're plan is to eventually join a part 121/135 operation. If that's the case, then absolutely, your first medical should be a class I. Why? Because if you can't pass it now, then you can forget your dreams of being a professional pilot.

If you're just starting out and your goal is to be a part 91 pilot, then stay far, far away from the class I. It's just a booby trap waiting to suck you in and spit you out as grist for the bureaucratic mill.

I had a chance to talk to an FAA higher up recently and he said they view your social media whenever there's a question about your medical. If they see a picture of you in the hospital with tubes sticking out out of your nose and you don't indicate that in your medical history, they will deny you.

 

That’s silly…if you’re that concerned about it, have your private MD go through the Class I items on your yearly health check. Then you’ll have a good idea. But taking a class I up front is just dumb. Even if you pass it, the more times you take it, as you age, equal more opportunities to be disqualified. If being an airline pilot is all you want to fly for, then go for it and pay for your class I. And just don’t fly if you fail it? Most class I disqualifying conditions will goon you for lower classes of medical when they are reported, particularly a class II. That’s why the “all or nothing” approach is dumb. Get your class II when you’re ready for your commercial and CFI training. You may not want to go to the airlines. You may love teaching. You’ll never know if you get denied any class Med out the starting gate. I really think that’s bad advice.

 

Most university aviation programs require students to qualify and obtain a class I prior to starting flying lessons. If your goal is part 121/135, you must be able to hold a class I.

If you're not on the path to be a professional pilot, then of course, no point in even attempting a class I or even II.