Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550?

I don’t know if they are or are not. I cannot find anywhere on their site that refers to TUV, so I think it’s safe to say no. The H&R are also much less costly. I am not sure who stocks these, but a call to H&R in Bellingham could answer that.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-ferrari-550-maranello-14/

Seller: "These will be a million dollar car in my opinion some day." >>> Hard to believe this is a 'Private Party' and not a used car dealer salesman.
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I’m have used both. H&R on bmws, HE on multiple Ferraris. Paul makes a great product. I trust them in a heart beat. In fact, I do and own a 11, 13, 15, 20, 25mm spacer sets that I use across three cars and have lent one to my friend for his Ferrari too.* As far as I’m aware, he is the only one who makes the appropriate subtle changes required for some of the quirky Ferrari hubs (ala 355). All of his products are over engineered for what they need to be, and their prices are quite reasonable as well through Ricambi. TUV It’s just a standardized Quality certification for Germany. Paul’s spacers most definitely would meet their requirements but the cost for getting certification outweighs market benefit is my guess.

* if you’re wondering why I have so many it’s because I like to change my wheels and swap between models. This lets me dial in the exact spec I want without overdoing it. That and 20+ years at this point…

 

With the HE spacers, do you use Type 1, which require longer bolts, or the Type 2 which are also hub centric spacers but with new bolts that fix the spacer to the hub, so the existing wheel bolts are used? https://www.hillengineering.co.uk/wheel-spacers

And to be clear, this is for my 550 w/ OEM wheels

 

For the rear using 25 or 30mm, use the type two. H&R and HE both use this style. It starts becoming a real safety issue otherwise.

 

Thanks, that is good info.

why would you use HE over H&R when the H&R are mush less costly?

fyi, I may have our H&R set sitting around somewhere that I could sell.

 

Re: set for possible sale: For rear (30?), or front and back (15/30)?

 

Yes I agree for 25 or 30mm to use the so called type 2 (Hill lingo) or DRM (H&R lingo). For less than 20mm, long bolts are fine. For 20mm, I have seen mixed answers. I use long bolts without issue.
Regarding cost...Are they much cheaper? The last spacer pair I bought was a HE 15mm cost me $120 or $125 for the pair. Quick google says the same range for H&R?
The type 2/DRM prices may be very different. I know HE 30mm are VERY pricey but honestly that size makes me nervous for multiple reasons. My 25mm Hill Type 2 was the one I didn't buy and came with the car.

Again, I have nothing against H&R*, in fact I am trying to find a set of 3 or 5mm H&R 5x108 67.1 CB spacers as a hold over to clear my brakes

*Except on cars with magnesium wheels ala 355 (as all the rest were recalled), there is a whole thing about how their hubs are designed to prevent magnesium corrasion.

 

We had 15/30. The HREs have been in for a long while though so I have to do some digging. Not sure if they are in my garage, dad’s garage or my warehouse. I’ll get back to ya!

 

Just to add my two cents to the spacer discussion, I installed 15/25 on my 575 with 19" modulars, and that seems to be the perfect fitment with those wheels (IMO)... tried 30s in the rear and it was just a bit much, while the 25s seem like what they should have left the factory looking like. Happy to post a pic if anyone is interested to see how they look on modulars.

 

Ha! Yeeeah, that’s a little thick…but with BAT driving the bus now, who knows?!

 

HE spacers are the best available. I had a used set of H&R, but they were cross-threaded so badly my techs threw them away. On Maranellos, 25 mm rear spacers and no front spacers look fine. Have had Type 2 HE 25 mm spacers on the rear of my 575M for around 12 years with no problems. HE Type 2 spacers have hardened inserts for the wheel bolts. H&Rs were just threaded directly into the aluminum.

 

If you listen to sellers/peanut gallery on BaT, every car is going to be a million dollar car soon.

 

That is not quite accurate. H&R DRA Series do have inserts like the HE. TUV (which is the toughest regulating body in the world) would never approve a spacer without said inserts. You can see in this image: *(i will post pics of our actual spacers later today once I get a high resolution image).

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I am sure the HE could also receive TUV as you stated. I have held them and they are quality parts. I have nothing negative to say about them, other then the price. And the price is due to the scale of their operation v H&R I am sure. I doubt they are making much profit on them given the machine time and material.

I have nothing against the HE, but the H&R are of the same quality and half the price. People can use whatever they want. H&R is the most reputable spacer maker in the biz (which is why we worked with them to commission the Maranello spacers back in 1999). They produce countless items for OE manufactures and have parts in just about every race series globally.

I am sorry your were cross-threaded. That is user error by the person who sold them to you, not a fault of the part. ANY thread can be cross threaded by a bungling user!

 

Curious what folks thought about the 1983 Ferrari 512 BBi auction on BaT… sold at $322,500 I believe

 

I am an active bidder on this car. Knew the previous owner and plan to continue to bid to my limit, ignoring all predictions on where values may/may not be in the future.

 

There is great story to share about the former (now deceased) owner and me if I am lucky enough to acquire the car within my budget. We both made a few extra bucks and bought our first Ferraris around the same time. If I do not win, then it will just remain a fond memory of a great professional colleague.

 

nice - how did you know JC? I knew him as he helped us a lot as we developed the AEM to work on BMW's (we used it on a lot of race cars and turbo street e36's) at my old shop. Wondering if we have crossed paths!

Good luck on the bidding - its a great car that you can drive guilt free!

 

Maybe this is too granular, but I want to correct what I posted earlier. I believe I was not correct in that the H&R use inserts. That is what I recalled (but I have not been in the biz since 2008 and am old, so forgive me!). In looking at images, looking at our spacers and talking to a buddy, I feel I can be correct now.

They DO screw into the spacer. BUT the spacer is not aluminum. It is "Constructed from a proprietary aluminum/magnesium alloy specially designed for wheel spacers, TRAK+® are stronger than 6061-T6 billet. Additionally, TRAK+® are hard anodized for extra strength and corrosion resistance." This material is approved by TUV to receive wheel bolts. So I Taz and myself were both right and wrong.

From looking at the HE spacers they are 6061 Aluminum with steel inserts.

Both approaches should be more than sufficient and I have never heard of either failing.

Hopefully this ends "spacer-gate" and I apologize for any incorrect information I put out. =)

 

I got the name wrong in my earlier post too. It is DRM as you pointed out. Regardless the price really only differs for the 25 and 30mm spacers.

The long bolt type are similar in cost but come in different sizes (11/13/15/20 for HE vs I think 10/12/15/20…it’s been a while…I think they discontinued the sub-10mm offering as those are not always hubcentric anyway.

HE 30mm are very very expensive. Regardless as you and Taz both point out, there is real no point in 30mm. (As alluded to earlier, I also would strongly discourage against its use for a host of reasons, both technical/engineering and subjective in terms effect on steering/handling).

 

DAMN! Deal of the year so far!

 

That is a good deal if you like black. There were not many 612 OTOs imported to the US and they were all special orders.