812 Replacement Rumors

SP1, SP2 and SP3 don't actually shine on interior or luggage space. SP3 actually has more luggage space than LaF, but it is still so little that Ferrari does not even mention it.

But I suppose you replied to my first point regarding differentiation.

 

Spot on - its only about $$$$ and the RACE share price. - Short term thinking IMO but as long as you can sell most of your models - why not.

BTW: Still doesnt mean I dont want the F167

 

Made a little lower at Dallara, and much cheaper than you might think

 

Again you’re oversimplifying this discussion. As others have already pointed out. Aluminum is easier to work with and to assess damage if wrecked. This is a fact.

 

I know specialists in Carbon that will not agree with these "facts". Their is things you can do with carbon that are impossible or almost impossible to do with Aluminium (in construction and repairs), in these cases Carbon can be "easier". Seems we are both oversimplifying, as it's all relative to what is trying to be achieved.

 

The 992.2 GT3 RS doesn't exist (yet). The most recent GT3 RS is the 992. The Gen 2 992's are expected to be launched this year ( the 992.2 GT3 RS won't be launched for a good few years).

 

I meant the current GT3 RS. My argument stands true.

 

it looks like a modern 365 at the front and rear windows from the 550/575m to me though

 

Early days , but any guestimates on production of F167 and variants? 3k,5k,7k,10k+ ?

 

Completely agree

 

Completely disagree. I humbly consider myself a car enthusiast and love the way my STO handles. It is so livable on the street and confidence inspiring when fast. The car felt like a 60mph when at 120.

 

Out for few weeks and man what did I miss? Wow, that boy must be something to reckon with in a party if he get invited that is.

I personally appreciate your information and that is what makes this site different from others. Thank you.

 

yes yes correct.. about the differentiation

 

I haven't seen a 992 GT3RS on scales yet, have you? I look forward to seeing some real world weights.

A 992 GT3 with a comparable spec (carbon buckets, PCCB, PDK, cage, big wing, fire extinguisher, Clubsport and Weissach package etc ) to a 992 GT3 RS ( Clubsport, Weissach, magnesium wheels etc) will be very close in weight. The main differences in weigh on the RS will be due to the added larger fully active front and rear aero, fully active compression/ rebound suspension, larger cooling radiators, bigger brakes, bigger wheels etc.

 

Weight, in isolation, is just a number on a piece of paper.

Weight only really matters if it affects how a car drives.

My old E46 M3 (MT) is lighter than a G87 M2 by about 400 lbs, but on the road when you are actually driving the car, the M2 feels more nimble than the M3. Why? Chassis dynamics, better brakes, superior suspension setup and tuning, etc.

It will no doubt be the same with the upcoming 812 successor. I will gladly take a heavy car that drives well than a lighter car that drives like its on rocks.

Don't focus on the absolute numbers, especially when it comes to weight and Ferraris. Focus on how the car drives and handles with you in the seat, your hands on the wheel, and your foot on the pedals.

That's what really matters and that's not something numbers will ever be able to capture accurately.

 

The problem is that even with all the arfices and filters in the world, the laws of physics don't change... And when you put a heavy car on downforce, Left/right chassis position, or load under braking... Well, the unpleasant sensations are still there...
Weight is the enemy of feedback, you can't rewrite the history of physics and the laws of dynamics.

 

The same could be said for a light car. If not tuned properly.

And the same is true for a heavy car, if not tuned properly.

Again, weight in isolation is only a number on a piece of paper. And people, myself included, do not drive pieces of paper.

 

Beyond that, there is a problem of rigidity and Ferrari is looking too much for compromise on its trackdays cars. We did a test with a friend who is a professional driver. we did the roads of a mountain pass in STO and then we got out of the car and did exactly the same in Pista. It was impossible to take the same support with the Pista as the chassis seemed so soft in comparison. If we had wanted to reproduce the rhythm of the STO with the Pista, we would have ended up at the top of a tree !
Nothing better than a pro driver to see the real qualities and real flaws of a car, it's 1000 times better than all the press articles...

 

As someone who regularly tracks my cars (including Ferraris), I'm also a big proponent of less mass, and better distribution of the necessary mass. One of the main issues of higher weight that is often overlooked by the statisticians is the affect on consumables. Tires, brakes, CV joints all take a lot of abuse in the track environment. Burning through them is one issue but having to drive around heat issues saps a lot of fun. It is very difficult to find a heavy car that you can lap for 45-60 minutes without cooling down but is common place for lighter weight vehicles designed with track days in mind. I won't track a car without race pads, fluid, aggressive alignment and track tires to help mitigate any inherent street car issues. I'm looking forward to seeing how my 296 handles it. They were brilliant at COTA during Corso Pilota but that's a very different environment than my usual track/club days.

 

So is hp, kmh, torque, etc etc - we all discuss numbers here everyday?

 

Yes, exactly.

This is why I said up above that the Ferrari clientele does not really want a carbon tub.

For better or worse, most (and I stress "most") Ferrari buyers or potential buyers are looking for GT cars first and foremost that drive well enough on a track. For those that want a true track car you have the "real" XX editions.

 

I bet given the choice every 812 GTS owner would prefer a carbon chassis that doesn't flex and skuttle like wet noodle.
I was shocked how much flex and shake their is in the Pisa Spider when i drove one back to back with the coupe i know well.

 

Surprisingly... the 812 GTS scuttle is essentially non-existent, especially when compared to my Pista Spider, but that could just be my experience. Any other 812 GTS/ Pista Spider owners concur?

 

I own both Pista Spider and 812 GTS (and I owned a Pista coupe and I drive in Challenge) and come to the opposite conclusion. The Pista Spider feels so much more rigid and direct to me compared to the 812 GTS, which I like to refer to as "grandma's car" lol. But then again, I would never take either of them on a track as I already own a track car.