The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

If the Wayne tells you, he will have to kill you. Even the Mafia is scared of these guys.

 

Unfortunately none of these experts, whoever they are, and for whatever reason, did anything to prove the car is a fake. That they may have said it was a fake was not enough and certainly no expert explained why it was a fake. They didn't even say it publicly, if they ever said it at all. Personally, I doubt they had the technical P3/P4 knowledge, pictures and Ferrari drawings to prove the car was a fake either.

Anyway, that is why I had to do the research and demonstrate with pictures, diagrams and explanations, in the posts as in the link here to all who were convinced, and there were many, including people who claim to be motor engineers, why the car is a complete fake with a replica non Ferrari/Vaccari made chassis with a 3 litre 312 F1 engine, which I did.

 

@rob lay

Amen to that.

 

I'm not arguing with you, Wayne. However, if these said experts and historians had little interest in what Jim or anyone was saying, who were these experts to say the car is a fake if they didn't even take notice of what was being stated. If that was the case they were stating the car was a replica/fake without even looking at it. I'd expect any expert to at least look at the evidence and then make a determination giving reasons for the determination.

They had such little interest in the thread and the claims stated herein that they did not investigate them, but they knew by some expert magical power the car was a fake.

 

Quite a dig there, Wayne. That I was thorough, you say I was obsessed. And I only helped prove the car was a replica to less knowledgeable F-chatters? Well many knowledgeable F-chatters were also taken in. Keep your pat on the back, thanks.

 

Interesting.

Respectfully, wouldn't a physical inspection of the car be thorough and necessary?

 

The real 0846 and its chassis no longer exist to inspect so it's impossible to physically inspect. Thanks to Mr Glickenhaus's own many great detail chassis pictures that proved the differences to the real chassis, no, absolutely not necessary.

You brought this up years ago and you were told the same then. And not just by me.

 

To prove authenticity, YES.
To prove that authenticity has not been established, NO.

Again ... the "burden of proof" is NOT, by any means, a level playing field between both sides of the argument.

 

No it's been pretty well documented in photos supplied by glickenhaus.

 

Given the rate he's selling off other cars, I wonder how long until this one shows up at auction or on BaT?

 

who and what?

 

Ohh it without a doubt changed the narrative on the car. Even the wikipedia changed.

Hell Napoli's who brought a huge amount of nut swingers who hung on every word he said as if it were gospel for the sheer fact that he owned expensive stuff and spoke with authority... Is now gone.

 

Thank you for your credit which I appreciate. However, there were a few other people way before me who stuck their necks out and questioned the authenticity of Mr Glickenhaus's car, notably Paul Skett @P4Replica, Arlie @Horsefly and highly regarded Ferrari historian Nathan Beehl @piloti.

 

Other than the 412p, what else is he selling?

 

The Duesenberg

 

Oh. Did he announce that on Insta?

 

That doesn't sound like a car you would want to drive in NYC this weekend anyway...

Dibs on the 208 Turbo!

 

Yep, going to a Bonhams sale near you....

https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/29260/lot/37P/1931-duesenberg-model-j-convertible-sedan-chassis-no-2465-engine-no-j-446/#photos

 

Holy Stronzo! The thread that keeps on going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going......

and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going......


Well, I might as well be the one to toss the water on the fire and bring the latest developments that will finally bring this thread to it's conclusion....

In preparation for it's upcoming private sale, Ferrari chassis #08460003 has been put through an obsessive and thorough examination, using the latest in cutting edge technology, along with many historical records, pictures, and artifacts, as well as cooperation from various engineers, mechanics, and experts that worked on or documented the car in period.

After many months of painstaking inspection, David Piper Chassis #0003 has been irrevocably determined to consist of 68.384% of the authentic remains of the scrapped, but fortunately not destroyed, Ferrari 330P3/4 chassis #0846 and 31.616% all out hackery performed by a later owner known for such, after it's usable competitive racing career and the last known pictures of the chassis in period.

In coordination with the new potential buyer, a Mr. David Dennison of 1100 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, Florida, both the buyer, seller, and period experts have agreed to the facts, that the aforementioned chassis being offered for sale by Mr. James "Napolis" Glickenhaus of Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus 8 Kendall Avenue, Sleepy Hollow, New York is what Mr. Glickenhaus has claimed the chassis to be all along, the partial remains of the historic Ferrari 330P3/4 #0846.

Funds to purchase the car whose value, in part, was fueled by a 20+ year controversy that made Ferrarichat what it is today, is rumored to be in the $40+ million dollar range, were partially donated by supporters of Mr. Dennison in his campaign to Make Ferrari Great Again, or MFGA for short.

It is my honor to provide this thorough conclusion to those invested in the great history of someone else's car they'll never own, have never seen, or probably wont even touch. Whether they were completely obsessed by it, or not.

I hope this news will bring peace and harmony to all, in what I hope to be a blessed and peaceful 2024.

Sincerely yours....

Private First Class Vincenzo Vangooli of the Stronzo Brigade of Burning Rubber.

 

THANK YOU, for finally bringing the clarity that many of us have been missing! Now, finally, we understand that it's not permitted to research or even discuss a Ferrari, unless you have the means and plans to touch it and/or own it. I mean, nobody could possibly be interested in any car, whether or not it may be a significant part of Ferrari history, unless they intend to own it! Isn't that obvious?

SO LET IT BE WRITTEN: Henceforth, it is not allowed to research, discuss or otherwise enjoy Formula One racing, unless you have the plans and means to own a team & car.



Meanwhile (back on planet earth), it really IS obvious why this thread keeps going: it's endlessly entertaining to watch the incessant ad hominem attacks against a researcher who crashed & burned what some just knew (and hoped and prayed) to be true. Some people's egos, apparently, are as fragile as their "versions" of reality.

 

I think your calendar is off by a couple months. It is not April Fools Day yet.

 

I don’t think they can help it.

I believe it’s been obvious for years already this forum hosting some hatred-of- & obsession-with-any-and-all-things-J.G. fanatics/whiners who will not be able to “give it a rest” unless everyone, including every real/top Ferrari historian, all of digital & print media, etc, along with their arch nemesis, J.G. himself, have publicly acknowledged and succumbed to their “demands” (!?!), although based on their past behavior, probably not even then.

It’s almost like their very existence depends on keeping this pathetic and pointless online hyperbole ongoing and wouldn’t even be surprising if some would rather set themselves on fire than “give it a rest”.

And in the meantime, this group of Cardashians seem to possess some incessant need to attack anyone daring to offer contradictory opinions or views, let alone question those of their virtual forum idol.
OTOH, perhaps that’s what people with deeply rooted hatred of something feel comfortable and enjoy doing with their time ?