430 Factory gated vs conversion

I’m sure this thread will quickly devolve into an “I wouldn’t take a conversion if Enzo came out of his grave and did it” and “I love my lightning fast F1” blah blah.

I think it largely depends upon the car that was converted, and how it was done. Was the clutch replaced at the time of conversion, etc.

For extremely low mileage examples it probably hurts value, but for anything outside of museum time capsules I think they all demand a premium over a comparable F1 car. By how much? I would say at least $15k on the low end and $25k on the higher side.

I’m sure this will be debated and BaT listings of cars with accidents, horrible sellers, or from peak post Covid Monopoly money bidding will be used as examples to demonstrate both extremes depending upon what point the poster is trying to make.

 

They were softening up a bit last I saw. At first they were pushing the $190 mark, but the last few have been back down to almost F1 prices. I think at this point it's barely reaching the cost of the car plus the conversion as I think everybody is a little scared about buying someone else's project for a premium when they can just find a good F1 car and send it out for conversion now that it's more commonplace.

 

Exactly. A converted car I can't see selling for more than an F1 for much longer. Like you said, you don't know of the work, and the conversions are easy and plentiful now, which is super cool. A factory conversion will obviously always be worth more and I'm sure overtime a LOT more. Manual is awesome, and for many people (not including me) originality really really REALLY matters.

I for one LOVE the F1 system in my Challenge Stradale. The conversion is awesome for sure, and a good 'ol manual is fantastic, but it would also completely change the car IMO. I never plan on doing it unless the F1 system starts to fail a lot and become super unreliable. This very well might happen eventually. At that point I'd happily convert it. For now though, I would hate to remove such a fantastic system from such a fantastic car while it's working. Just my opinion though.

 

covered in the CS thread but as a data point the gated CS at ryan friedman sold last week for $370k. You can extrapolate what you like whether that was was a premium or discount.

 

Realistically? There should be no arbitrage with them at all. Why would you pay more than the price of an F1 plus the cost of a conversion and install? If I can buy an F1 for $125,000 and convert for say $20,000 (just throwing a number out there). The car realistically should not sell for more than $145,000 when I can buy the F1 and pay for the conversion myself. There may be a slight convenience fee on the price as it is already done and you dont need to buy the kit and have it installed. If these were selling for a premium, people would be scooping up F1's left and right, doing the conversion and selling them at crazy mark ups.

 

I don't think that a single concept of "value of converted cars" exists. Three things should be considered:
1) Manufacturer of the conversion kit
2) Installer of the conversion
3) Detailed inspection of the converted car

Regardless of #1 and #2, number 3 is the most important and should be done by someone really familiar with those cars and with engineering practices. To the point of even checking the type of steel used and steel treatment applied to the parts. Even with the same manufacturer and the same installer, parts and installation are not guaranteed to be exactly the same over the years either.

So I would expect properly done conversions to come with high premium, not so if #3 can not be done to verify.

That's why I think that buying F1 car and purchasing the kit and installation may be preferred to buying already converted, even though it comes with additional conversion hassle. Purchasing a car at an auction without #3 may be risky regardless of the seller claims.

 

Swaps will and are coming back down to earth. Factory cars will be/are collector pieces. I think it's as simple as that.

 

there's a new craze now hitting the scene...

Better get in on the act before its too late

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Nice nimble peddles with dimples to ensure good food traction..

Just needs a gated shifter conversion...

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Sorry couldn't resist!

 

The days of a wait time for converted cars are over so that bubble has popped. I think a converted car with it's kinks worked out will continue to be worth more than a factory F1, at least for the foreseeable future, however not by nearly the level that it was.

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As far a value goes - in my opinion - OEM conversions done by leading specialists will add incremental value as the parts are scarce and desirable (aka end product is factory correct) and the rest will not.

 

Here's my off the wall thought... I think the 430 F1 will become appreciated more and more as time goes on, but not big dollar collectables of course. It's just cool that it's a manual first, automatic second. DCT's are too perfect in auto mode and result in drivers neglecting the paddles.

 

If you are converting the car for the resale value, it's the wrong reason. I am doing it for my own driving pleasure.

I did drive and love the F1 on the track, and it is an awesome system, much better than the DCT's from BMW and other faster shifting cars. Raw and angry when changed on full throttle on race mode, really race car feeling... you don't get that kick in the but with the modern DCTs , nor with the 458 and later Ferraris. They are too civilized.

But.... it never does and never will beat a proper manual shifting car, where you can do your own rev matching on a tight track... at least for me, when I get it right it's music to my ears... I am in control, not the computer. Life is short, and if you enjoy it, just do it... the hell with all prices and resale values and all that.
It won't be made by Ferrari, but it will be a good clone; so I will just sit in my car in winter and look at that beautiful gated shifter and drink a beer (or two) , but that 's just me.

 

This response is exactly how I feel and my attitude also. Nice summary.

 

No one's going to buy an OE 3-pedal F430 and actually drive it (the way it should be driven)
It is purely as an investment, since it costs more that a 458(non-turbo).
Therefore, a converted car gives the best of both worlds (F430-500 hp ownership and 3-pedals) to actually drive it like you stole it

My opinion too

 

This is why I think there must to be categorization within the conversion space: OEM conversions and Non-OEM conversions. An OEM conversion should sit somewhere above (F1 + Conversion Cost) and Factory gated, in my opinion.

 

I had a gated 355, now I have an F1 430. I absolutely love my 430 but I truly miss the clutch/shifting. Great thread for me to sift through. I would consider a conversion on mine because I’m keeping it for a long time.



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I keep watching for converted cars to be put up for sale as factory cars to try and dupe ignorant buyers.

 

It already happened by a certain someone who was banned from here yet somehow came back, but barely posts unless they are being trash talked. I suppose at least now it's them posting, instead of hiding behind fake accounts to harass anyone with a dissenting opinion....

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It's a pretty interesting situation. As someone in the market to purchase an F1 and then convert it, I echo a lot of things already said here. When I first started looking and was more ignorant, I would have loved the convenience of an already converted one and would have paid a slight premium for it. Now that I know a LOT more about the process and options, I'm pretty hesitant to not do the conversion myself. After speaking to some indy mechanics who do conversions, it seems a lot are done poorly. And then you layer on the variety of ways to go about it, the whole e-diff discussion, etc. and I rather have that control and make the decision myself.

In terms of pricing, I'm still seeing a hefty premium for already converted cars. I'd say anywhere from 30-50k (asking at least). Other than the NGS one that was sold quickly, I'm not sure if the others are selling or not.

 

The other bonus of purchasing an F1 Car and then Converting it is that you get a Car that for sure was not overrevved!

The 5 Valved Ferrari engines are not found of overrevs, not that many engines are but the complexities of the 5 Valves increases the potential for a top end rebuild even for a minor bad down shift or god for bid a downshift into 1st when you meant to go to 3rd!

 

The F1 also allows for downshifts no problem, even when the requested gear is out of the engine rpm range.

 

Ouch, I never tried it on my Stradale, but I didn't think it would allow it unless maybe in Race mode... OK good to know you still need to check for Over Revs. Thanks!