LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

It's not nonsensical at all, using a vacuum cleaner for an engine, cause that's what a puny TT V6 is, cannot replicate the feeling/emotion a NA V12 gives you.

 

The current hyper line, which dates back to the 288 GTO, has never been a product with the intent of Valkyrie. The F40 really defined the genre and was like a CS/Scud/Speciale ++. The Valkyrie is like an LMP car made road legal. Heavily compromised and not too usable. If Ferrari make it like that, there would be a lot of frustrated owners who can’t even drive their car the 100 miles per year that most end up doing (because they wouldn’t fit in it!)

F250 has to be better than Valkyrie in usability because some will want to use it (and Ferrari will want them to use it) on Mille Miglia and other tours etc.

 

It will be, it's night and day... almost... the problem with the Valkyrie, as you say, is that it's too difficult to use.
Getting in and out, starting the car, steering... Everything is a problem unfortunately...

 

... but totally worth it!

I would buy one long before a T50.

 

Is F250 a good looking car at least ..?

 

Lets really hope.
Ferrari also have central position car back then
Wish they bring that back once more with this.


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the valk is a ball ache in terms of how practical it is but extremely special to drive and lets face the facts - 'hypercars' don't do many miles on average and are special occasion cars

ferrari can compete with it but they are going to have to throw a lot of power at the problem as they won't be able to make their car light enough imo

 

I have pondered into wether the SF90 "XX" Stradale has deliberately been sandbagged in the aero department to leave some breathing space for F250.

It doesn't make sense to me that a 992 GT3 RS has more quoted downforce than the "XX" Stradale. All manufacturers benchmark and the "XX" Stradale is high on weight and comparably low on downforce.

I wouldn't compare F250 to Valkyrie or One. I think the car will be considerably more road focused, in addition to it already using existing powerplant architecture. It will be less of a singular project. R&D timeframe is shorter too.

From experience, Ferrari has the most fantastically integrated hybrid system of any car, bar none. That's where I think the most intriguing aspect of this car lies, since it in all likelihood has some parallel development with the electric car for HW and SW for the electric part of its powerplant. I'm pretty certain this car will sport the benchmark of next generation PHEV powerplants. I have spoken to one of Ferraris WEC drivers about how the 499P is to drive, and the tech of the hybrid system in that car is absolutely amazing, which I'm sure some of will be carried over to the F250.

The best drive of the current Ferraris is the entry run of the mill sports model, 296. Let's hope F250 takes a page from that book and not the underwhelming emotion the SF90 provides - which by judging first drives also goes for the "XX" Stradale.

(Why am I hyphenating "XX"? A road car, which is the most regulated car of all, has been given the nomenclature for a car that was designed to be a laboratory in a track with no regulations. Let's be careful about "evocative" wishes for names of F250).

 

"best drive of the current Ferraris" .... i think that is rather 'subjective'!

I test drove a 296 and was intent on buying one ..... then the dealer made an SF90 available for a test drive and i instantly changed my mind!

I do agree that the 296 is a great car and i will have one in the future!

 

I did not add anything to your lap time, these folks did. This was why I asked where your data can be found. Does Ferrari maintain an 'official' record of stock-only cars as measured by them?

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/ferrari-heres-full-list-fastest-fiorano-lap-times

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/fiorano

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiorano_Circuit

https://fastestlaps.com/models/ferrari-enzo

https://www.hotcars.com/the-fastest-ferraris-around-fiorano/

 

Hmm, the confusion seems to be there are two times for the Enzo - 1.22.3 and 1.24.9 - on the Wikipedia page. Both listed as the same year, 2003. I found an fchat post from 2007 (below) that lists all the times, obviously picked from similar sources, but it does not include the 1.24.9 so I’m wondering if that was not previously included for some reason - a wet track time or some other reason why it was slow? For reference the F50 was 1.27 with a manual gearbox. A 1.24.9 with an F1 gearbox would hardly have made the Enzo any quicker than the manual F50 in reality so it seems a bit misleading?

If you take the 1.22.3 time for the Enzo you get 1.30 for the F40 (in 1987), 1.27 for the F50, 1.22.3 for the Enzo and 1.19.7 for the LaFerrari. Essentially 3 seconds improvement for each car except from F50 to Enzo which also makes the jump from manual to automated gearbox. To the original point, take 3s off the LaFerrari time and you get to somewhere in the 1.16s which I think is the ballpark for the F250, always remembering it gets harder to maintain a 3s reduction with every generation. If it could be concluded that 1.16 is a decent lap time for F250 then XX Stradale at 1.17.3 is mightily impressive.

To get to 1.14 (3s better than XX Stradale) the F250 has to have some major breakthrough that none of us expects. Would be fun it it did and maybe make up for the V12 to V6 change - the V12 LaFerrari would be 1.19.7 versus the V6 F250 at 1.14. That improvement would be unprecedented, especially for a road car on road car tyres wouldn’t it?

Alternatively you could argue the 1.24.9 for the Enzo is correct, which would mean the LaFerrari jump was also extremely impressive - over 5 seconds! Which would mean that the hybrid powertrain system was exceptionally good for lap time despite its weight. More likely that the 1.22.3 is the representative Enzo figure I suspect.

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Subjective it is, but consensus is towards 296.

I have been told the F250 will be unveiled at Finali Mondiali.

 

The F50 GT was lapping in 1:10s in 1997. To this day it's still the best Ferrari ever made.

 

In one of the more detailed Enzo brochures published by Ferrari in the day, they quote a Fiorano lap time of 1'25"30. Excerpt:

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the 350 gt2 did it in 1.15 with 500hp so with modern road legal 'qualifying tires' and another 800hp, carbon tub, the latest in stopping technology etc then I don't see why that couldn't be matched or beaten

would be very interesting to see what the Valk could do around Fiorano!

 

GT1 race car those numbers have nothing to do with road cars

 

Not to mention that this lap time is just a rumour.

 

Usability is irrelevant. Hypercars are not meant to be driven daily.

 

A very old one. A modern supercar should be able to match that with ease.

 

Not correct
Many owners live in cities and need to drive quite a bit before they can reach good empty roads on which to enjoy their cars. If the car is a nightmare in traffic, hot, uncomfortable, difficult to start etc it becomes a pain.

Remember these are not track cars. Very few buyers of such hypercars (not track-only FXX cars) use them on track where usability is less important


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That's a fallacy. It's like saying that a modern, road legal hypercar, can be as quick around a circuit as a 1980s F1 car. It is not happening, for a number of reasons. A track ready car would be a bad road car. You don't seem to comprehend the different requirements between a racing car and a road car.

 

the reality is these cars are rarely driven anyway so surely are special occasion cars and therefore a bit of discomfort doesn't matter?

of the La Ferraris I could find for sale most of them averaged 100 miles a year, that's just less than 2 hours a year of driving on the motorway at legal speeds here in the UK

 

.... which is sadly a huge waste of a wonderful car!

This is how you do it ......

https://www.motor1.com/news/572975/mm-enzo-highest-mileage-ferrari/

Its like having a hot girlfriend and rarely having sex, because you are saving her ..... for what ... the next guy?

 

haha, kind of but if you are selling her for £2m profit then i'd consider abstaining !

I understand why people don't drive them but I'm pointing out that how comfortable they are doesn't largely matter imo

 

'Real estate and stocks' are for profit .... cars are for driving and fun