812 Replacement Rumors

As I said before follow any Ferrari on track and the amount of body roll is staggering! Lower an 812, put on some Novitec springs and P Zero Corsas and you can just about keep up with an RS in the twisties and really stick your nose in and harass a McLaren, which also has some (less) roll. The RS does not have any visible roll and the sheer grip level reflects that.

And expect to go through a set of tires and a set of brake pads in a weekend. (OEM P Zeros won’t last a session at non Ferrari parade lap times.)


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I’d love to see a cheaper Icona-type line. I applaud Porsche for creating the incredibly fast, user-friendly, all-weather 911 Turbo AND the purer, probably less-quick-in-most-hands, scarier GT2 RS from the same base car.

You’ve often cited regulatory pressures and Ferrari’s low volume, independent manufacturer status as limiting their realistic options. I get that. I just wonder if Ferrari engineers and test drivers would choose haptic, hybrid, electronic over hydraulic controls, and absurd power that has to be electronically reigned in if they weren’t pressured to do so.

I want the products they would create if allowed to follow their hearts and passions, especially if I’m spending $500K to $1M+ per car.

 

Like many here I have zero interest in any new Ferrari's other than F167. I moved on from "brand loyalty" many years ago and buy any and all brands I like for their looks, performance engineering etc etc.

Of late the bespoke brands (Singer, Pagani, GMA, Ruf etc etc) have way more appeal than any of the mainstream brands. Yes they are in a different price range but I would rather "sweat bullets" to get one of these than play games to get what I really want.

 

Over-hyped? Perhaps. They also overstated the performance (customer Series 1 cars never reached 150 mph). But it is certainly not the worst handling of the classics. If you exclude the nasty tendency to wag its tail under heavy acceleration, due to the narrow rear track, it is actually a benign handling car, by 1960s standards at least. It won't try to kill you, like an original 911, which only had half the power.

 

@Bundy, It’s a good question. I don’t know but I have a strong feeling that they want to be at the forefront of what is considered modern. If the world goes hybrid, they want to do it best (and they currently do in my view), if haptic controls are considered the way forward, they want that too (certainly not the best at that currently). Another good question is this; if a brand considers what others are doing and decides to follow the jointly assumed ‘right’ path, seeking to improve on others; efforts, can they still retain an ability to initiate technology themselves or do they become masters at perfecting what others have already pioneered? Maybe that would be a better criticism of Ferrari. In pursuit of all the goals that all manufacturers must achieve - zero emission etc. - they seem to be assuming hybrid and EV will be the solutions.

Contrast with Toyota, not a brand you would naturally compare with Ferrari. They have hydrogen combustion engine vehicles already running about (not hydrogen fuel cell but hydrogen ICE). Maybe it needs someone with the development budget of Toyota to do it and Ferrari are only able to perfect what someone else pioneers rather than create themselves. Porsche are leading the way with e-fuels. If you ask me, we are criticising Ferrari for the wrong things (as we have discussed - to me their behaviour regarding the search for extra power rather than lighter weight is characteristic). I would maybe like to see Ferrari innovate much more around powertrain technology rather than just accept the future is a mix of hybrid and EV. Maybe they are doing that and I/we just don’t know about it?

 

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable and valid approach to me. Not everyone is at that place but I can understand those that are.

 

The E-types are the worst driving "sports" cars i have ever driven.

My dad spent ages looking for a perfect example and finally bought one when i was about 24 or 25, it was his boyhood dream to own one. It was completely garbage, shocking awful in every way, i thought my dad was playing some kind of prank when he let me drive it for the first time. He sold it on after around 3 months.

As the new owner drove it down the road out of sight, i will never forget my dad saying "well son, never meet your hero's", then him climbing into his E39 M5 with a relieved grin to park it in the E-type sized space he had just reacquired in his garage.

I have driven 2 more examples since that car, i was interested in seeing if that car my dad had was just a lemon, but unbelievably these other cars were even worse. E-****e's is what they became known as in our family.

 

Doom saying, as always. I am sure you are familiar with the English expression "sounding like a broken record".
BTW, Enzo cared about performance. The V12 was the highest performing engine back in the day, that's why it was the engine of choice. Nowadays they also have to consider emissions and regulations. The current range is objectively the best in Ferrari's history. Feel free not to like it, but it remains true to Enzo's ethos of striving for continuous improvement.

 

Gabriele de Simone once answered the "absurd power" question. He said that as long as there is control, there is no such thing as an overpowered car. In other words, an overpowered car is a car that doesn't know what to do with all its power. Ferraris put their power to good use, unlike, say, an 800 HP Dodge Challenger.

 

I hear you. Try a 1st gen 911 and tell me what you think...

 

The only old 911 i have driven is a 1973 2.7 RS lightweight. It was marvellous, simply marvellous. One of the best pure driving experience's I have ever had.

The only pre-996 911 i have owned and got to know very well was a 964 RS. It was also marvellous. I miss it dearly and wish i didn't have to sell it when i did ( also because of their values today).

 

If digital/haptic you can base the answer on past experience, in general, Ferrari will not provide parts for a 20 year car, so you will be on your own...for instance, I am concerned about 458s and later as to what happens when those screens are no longer made and the special hard drive within no longer available...will someone provide replacements/repairs? Maybe

 

Of course someone else will be in that market.

And give you the Doctor Discount.........

 

Again, I’m with you - wait and see the 167 but in the meantime a T33 spider and my Purosangue alternative which is a bit wacky!

 

Ferrari's needle-based tach is digital. It does not have a spinning cable driven by the engine. There is no deconfliction required to ask Ferrari to disregard its 75 years of culture. How you display the digital data could easily be by benign digits or an easily read moving needle. Its a road car not a race car.

Decision is because its cheaper to have an ugly flat panel than it is to make something attractive that actually moves and is still there when you shut down. The change is also due to their management being geeks as opposed to enthusiasts. Expect a lot more of this as a result.

 

It seems like the higher-ups are tech posers themselves. They want to build a 4-wheeled smartphone(with a bit of an engine slapped into it) instead of a proper "car" instead.

 

Brilliant idea. Let the V12 GT line live on, similar to what Porsche did for the 911; and then modernize some design and chassis elements, retain the classic shape, v12 engine, analog dials and buttons and slap on some luxurious leather in its interior. Ferrari has the flagship line(sf90 and its potential successor) now, they should just sell it to modern generation number idiots instead of destroying the classic V12 GT line that they have been cherishing for decades.

tl;dr Retain the v12 line similar to 911 and do whatever "tech advancement" for the flagship line instead

 

Absolutely correct!
Eddie Cue from Apple is on the board, etc.
Plus there is way too much marketing now, while Mr. Vigna is mainly occupied with the green stuff and Mr. Elkann is busy counting money.
Yes, the Ferrari we grew up with is complete history now. So sad.

Marcel Massini

 

And don't forget the large battery factory they have been building next to the factory. They are building it with future cars in mind, which will give you a clue to the way forward.
Get a V12 while you can.

 

Interesting Purosangue alternative - I am intrigued . T.33 Spyder looks stunning - engineering insane - Congrats !!

 

It’s so sad that a handful of people can cause the demise of such passion and history. For all the company people that read this thread it’s a shock a sizeable portion of their loyal clientele is being completely ignored.

 

The die was cast when Marchionne listed the company.

Who knows what path the company would have followed otherwise? But going public guaranteed that commercial considerations would trump all others. An SUV, for example, was fait accompli.

Let's be real though: even if some of us might have made different choices, they're still building some great cars.

 

Some, yes.

Marcel Massini

 

Sergio Marchionne, the bean counter, promised the very young Elkann billions.
While Avvocato Luca Cordero di Montezemolo didn't like going public and was fired (9 September 2014).

Marcel Massini

 

Great cars yes dynamically. But the interiors and difficult to use tech take away from the experience. So simple to make great cars into amazing cars.