The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

I can't comment about the other threads where his alleged actions are in question. But when it comes to this thread he deserves a degree of latitude. Rob, as you and I have talked in the past, this topic had discussions amongst people beyond what was posted here for self interest reasons we also discussed.

Steve made the information openly available and used extensive photo documentation to demonstrate it. Others already knew assorted, or maybe in its entirety, this information but kept that knowledge closely held.

 

Roger that.

 

As Rob says, what does that have to do with his posting on a completely different thread and thereby breaking our rule about where 0846 content should be posted? The incident we're discussing took place elsewhere and was moved here, so bringing up what he experienced on this thread is irrelevant. The fact that 12 years of offenses have been compiled but he's not already been permanently banned is already acknowledgement that he's added something. However, whatever credit he gets has a limit.

This specific topic has little interest for me and I only come to this thread because of user reports of misbehavior. Consequently I neither commend nor criticize him for his efforts, I simply remind him about our rules and then act on it if he ignores that.

 

Still wildly confused, i see, about who has something "to prove", and who doesn't

Thanks to Steve's research, there is SUBSTANTIAL doubt about the authenticity of this car ... which means, the car is a FAKE until PROVEN otherwise. So far, that PROOF is totally ABSENT.

Therefore, the car is a FAKE (even though it is still being represented as authentic by the owner).

All of your hero worship, and all of your ad hominem attacks, will not change these simple facts.

 

I shilled for no dealers whatsoever. The charge against me was unjustified. I succesfully defended the unjust allegations against me in the thread in the link here. I was merely speaking of the cars making the big news in the market at the time. Nobody has a go at Timmmmmmmy for making his informative auction house posts.

I am not saying all, but much of the moderation against me has been unjustified and you have admitted and apologised publicly yourself for it. No apology from some of the main perpetrators against me though, who are openly JG fanboys, such as Wax and Neurobeaker who have very limited Ferrari knowledge.

No disrespect to the very admirable posters who provide great info on F-Chat but you will find it much harder to get real technical information/drawings/period pictures etc on a long lost Ferrari prototype racing car from nearly 60 years ago than on most other rare cars and cars at the dealer. There is no comparison. You refer to those people as heros, but very disrespectfully to me, and many times, as an ass. Nobody has ever called me an ass to my face. It does not faze me in the slightest but it does reflect poorly on you, saying more about you than me. The information I posted may well have saved someone over $40 million, not thousands. I had to get some of the info from Ing. Piero Ferrari himself and not forgetting the massive correspondence I had with Ing. Mauro Forghieri. If you think getting any information out of them is easy then you are extremely misguided.

I felt the post I made in the Barchetta thread was very relevant and I admittedly broke a very petty rule imo and it is clear that you do like to jump on me for the slightest thing as other posters have clearly witnessed by their postings today. Regarding my alleged 12 years of offenses the clear animosity directed at me by most of the F-Chat moderators has been unwarranted.

As you admit above this topic has little interest to you, so you don't get it and therefore you can't and have not comprehended the effort that I put into posting the information in this thread. You reminded me many times at every opportunity about your rules, but very rarely to the people that verbally attack me here and let them carry on making their attacks regardless.

 

This, is like Shrek Vs. Lord Farquaad

And yes, Lord Farquaad "is a dictator who created a dystopian state similar to North Korea where all the people have to comply with everything their boss does. "

I found a cool description, and quote, about the daily goings on...right here.

"Farquaad’s height (or whatever you don't like about him - My observation) was a character device. It was used to define him as a person so insecure with what he wasn't (tall) that he made up for it with cruelty.
Farquaad is the example of how not to behave when you're different.

So how does that affect the Aesop?
The audience is not invited to ridicule the short dude. We're invited to ridicule the tyrant who tries to distract from his insecurities with his cruelty and arrogance.
We see what Shrek and Fiona see: a charmless, arrogant jerk seeking power over others to compensate for his self-loathing.

It's a reaction of disrespect to make comments about his height. Yeah, it gives no one the moral high ground to take cheap shots at Farquaad for his height,
but it keeps with the tone of the story that the protagonists are flawed and lacking self-awareness,
but after the prince looms menacing and gigantic over the Gingerbread Man, do we really see Farquaad as physically deformed, or emotionally horrific? "

"He’s short, he is conceited, he wants more power than he has already (he wants to be a king more than a lord), he does not know what that means (he is more interested in the title than the expanse of lands.
That is why he wants to marry a princess, for the title change. No mention of eventually being the king of Far Far Away is mentioned until Shrek2. He severely dislikes anything that is against his world view."

Interesting comments, no? To me it says a lot about a lot...

Regards, Alberto


Lord Farquaad is heedless of the lives of his knights...

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The dude has a point. Actually, a number of points. Without this thread with Steve’s evidence, would JG have the car on the block with some of his others? …would someone have been bilked out of $tens of millions, as a result?

Documentation and evidence is the difference between an honest broker and a scammer. This has been proven multiple times in the classic car world. It’s shocking to me how “sometimes this matters, sometimes we want to pretend otherwise”…there are some impressive mental gymnastics that lead to ‘otherwise.’

 

Ted, would you buy a car of said caliber, or any other 'highly valuable' F. auto, without it being certified by Ferrari?

Then, the ugly truth would spill out, Steve or no Steve.
If you did not follow such precautions, yes, you deserve all you get.

Regards, Alberto

 

Very many Ferraris of the highest value sell without Ferrari Classiche Certification including the 2 highest priced Ferraris ever sold at auction, 330LM/250 GTO #3765 LM for $51,705,000 and 250 GTO #3413 GT for $48,400,000.

 

I honestly don't mean this negatively, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in the post above. If you have issue with Steve's facts -- raise that issue and let the chips fall where they may. It seems like Steve's detractors want to talk about everything but the actual issues at hand. I don't understand @Vincent Vangool 's posts either -- just seem like vague ramblings that mean nothing. If you have a specific issue or question, raise it. What is the point of wasting all of our time going on and on post after post about nothing?

 

Peter, I am posting a childish version of the entire situation.

I take no issue with anybody, nor am I spiteful or hateful, and that applies to too many here one way or another, just as in everyday traffic, right?

As far as me, read it again, Shrek, and see if you understand the Aesop of it...

After, I am exactly what you are doing...rambling.
By the by, glad to be a Rambler just as @Vincent Vangool


Regards, Alberto

 

I'm shaking in my boots!

 

The mod who dealt with it said otherwise.

I took action because you tried to report another user for "attacking" you. When I reviewed it, it turned out all the fuss was initiated by your violation. You claim it's a "very petty rule", but the fact is your violation resulted in blowing up into another 0846 fight outside of this thread. So no, the rule isn't petty, it was intended to forestall the bickering on unrelated threads that caused you to make a report.

Total lack of self-awareness. Out of 250,000 users, you're the one that gets singled out. Must be the mods at fault.

Your contortions and hypocrisy are boundless. If I cared about this topic, you would say I was biased. If I don't care about this topic, you say that I'm clueless.

You are the one that doesn't get it. I don't consider a user's contributions when deciding if there is a violation. Contributions don't give the user any privileges to violate the rules. I do consider a user's contributions when deciding on the penalty. You got that benefit, but there's a bottom to that well.

 

You were thread banned from the Ferrari Modulo and the Glickenhaus SCG threads for "stalking" JG and his cars. Here are lengthy posts from a user summarizing what you did in each thread (the relevant posts are no longer in-line as they were moved to this thread).

Because of your behavior you were thread banned from both.

So much for your revisionist memory.

 

Random thoughts brought up by some of this:

Confirmation bias is and has always been a significant problem in all research, regardless of field or subject, including any with real historical or scientific importance, but some prefer to go to great lengths just to avoid/ignore that FACT.

Repeat something long/often enough and eventually you (& others ?) will start believing it's true (or reality).

Fortunately, none of this is of any significance to anyone but "the believers".

 

I sure hope that's not your view of "Finns" ?

 

Edit:

 

No Timo, it is still Lord Farquaad, get it?

Regards, Alberto

 

Yes, this has turned into the thread "about nothing". And, if you find it wasteful, don't read it
Regards, A.

 

Again, I don't know what the value is of these vague posts that imply Steve's info is wrong. Nobody is saying Steve is absolutely right on everything. That said, most of his posts/claims were beaten to death by many people when he made the claims, so they largely have been battle tested.

I don't know what the point of all these posts that are nothing but vague innuendo. If you have specific concerns about any specific claim -- Steve's or anyone else's -- raise that issue and we can debate to determine if your concerns are valid or not. Why keeping posting over and over vague comments about Steve being wrong, without providing any useful information at all? It is a waste of all of our time to keeping reading innuendo posts that no substance whatsoever. If you want to have vague innuendo discussions with Steve -- do it via PM. If you are going to post to the thread, have some meaningful specific substance in your post so you don't waste all of our time.

None of use are Steve fan-boys. Having talked to Jim briefly a few times at shows, I always felt that he was generous with his time with everyone (whether you pulled up in an F40 or a Yugo ), and he also helped me get service expedited at Wide World Ferrari. I'd rather Steve be wrong than right. I also don't always agree with how Steve approaches discussions, but none of that has anything to do with whether he is right or wrong.

But what you don't get is that you (and a couple others) who are the ones that have turned it into a thread about nothing. I am interested in the topic, which your posts have nothing to do with because they aren't saying anything. All of us subscribed to this thread are interested in the topic. You are not talking about the topic, you have a personal issue with one poster -- take that discussion to PM and don't continue to waste the time of those who are interested in the actual topic. I really don't mean this to be critical, but it's impossible to just watch all of our time being wasted with substanceless post after substanceless post.

 

miurasv said: ↑
"Nobody has ever called me an ass to my face."

Quite the amazing statement, very humble, and human. Almost AI.
I have been called an ass most of my life by people I could care less about. THAT, is the point.
Even you did, but on the other thread, not an ass, but lazy, etc.etc.

You sir, may be the most knowledgeable of anything you like, a wunderkind of sorts, yet, it does not give you the right to be obnoxious or mean.


Regards, Alberto