The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Hopefully not VAGUE with this reply.

No implication about being right or wrong, at least not from me.

I am one of those that are simply too ignorant or lazy to have read the "War and Peace" of 0846, so get berated because of that.

Just be nice would be sufficient, a little tolerance, right? Otherwise, who cares...

 

No! This is about making sure that the provenance is accurate. Ferrari has long been subjected to inaccuracies. Some were created by Ferrari themselves as they switched serial numbers and did some self-serving dealings. Others have been propagated by being published stories that keep being repeated. We have had dealers and private individuals find it in their interest to create provenance that is not there.

With this car we have an owner with a wide following of fan boys the that he can spew fiction to. Beyond that he does, and continues to, manipulate situations so that this recreation/fake gets displayed at notable events using his invented provenance by which the falsehoods continue to be perpetuated.

 

Translation via analogy: "I didn't see the movie, I'm not interested in the movie, and I can't be bothered to watch the movie, but I'm going to write post after post telling the very large group of people who sat through the movie several times, and are actually interested in the movie, why the movie is bad".

Take your personal disagreement with one poster to PM.

 

Everytime I see this thread pop up, I'm reminded of this song. Yeah, I'm old.

 

For some reason, this tune seems appropriate.

 

But he was wrong as I already demonstrated.

Yes, you took action and banned me from that thread whereas you have done absolutely nothing whatsoever to curtail the abuse from @TTR, @swift53 and @Vincent Vangool that has been going on for a very long time. This lack of action in itself is abuse by you. Plus on top of that you are vindictive towards me, as others have commented.

I am very aware of what's been going on, as are many others here, which is bigoted on line bullying.

Although I did not call you clueless it is clear that you do not understand the topic.

Oh, I get it. Many people have appreciated the work I have done that I took the time to post here.

Many Tifosi are absolutely outraged by what JG has done to Modulo. In my correspondence with Paolo Martin, Modulo's designer at Pininfarina, he has expressed his displeasure in the vandalism and butchery of this wonderful and very famous concept car. You see, @ylshih when I research things I research the subject properly. See my post here. It was never intended as a road car.

My behaviour!!! At the time JG was claiming that he had NHTSA approval for replicas for his cars which absolutely was NOT the case. Many people were glad that I posted it here but you decided to gag me and banned me from the thread and stopped me from reporting important valuable information. Very clever of you, @ylshih.

 

@TTR, @Vincent Vangool@swift53

I feel privileged to be in such esteemed company!
Cheers friends

Regards, Alberto

 

No, you didn't demonstrate that. What you did was refused to accept his detailed explanation of what you did and put your own spin on it as you always do.

Correct and incorrect. No action was taken against other users because it was your fault.

No. What's been going on is repeated violations of rules that were explicitly laid out to you across many years after each event. We've explained carefully, repeatedly, and tried to minimize the penalties, so you have had ample opportunity to heed the warnings.

Instead, you attack everyone, but never accept responsibility for your own actions. This is not your site, it operates according to the stated rules and not to your interpretation of those rules.

Each thread cited, the causes of action were "0846" posts. Posts that had nothing to do with the thread topics.

I've also noted it's often the case that users who cite their own likes as justification for their behavior, fail to notice that the likes on opposing posts are just as plentiful and often greater.

----

Persistence may have helped you build your case against 0846, but persistence is going to get you into deeper doo-doo in this case. It's clear that patience and leniency isn't working, you find or create excuses and rationalizations to do whatever you want. Hence, we're off that track. We're now on the normal track for a user who has a 12-year, 11-page long moderation history.

30-day site ban, 90-day thread ban. On your return, if you choose to return, any mention of 0846 or JG by you, outside this thread, will result in even more severe penalties. Regardless of whether you agree with them or not, those are your conditions of use of this site.

 

Now you have gone out of your way to prove how thin skinned you are.

For this thread we need a different moderator who does actually understand the 0846/DP003 topic and what has gone on that isn't just posted here.

 

If you don't like my moderation, you're welcome to escalate to @rob lay.

 

Hahahaha. Thank you sir for the sarcasm. Us Vangools have been esteemed longer than steamed clams.

Good day Fine sir.

Vincenzo Vangooli Private 1st class Of the Stronzoly Deluded Division.

 

.
Where is the actual proof that any of the Piper chassis were built by Allegretti and Silvano Cantelli? Let alone that the chassis in question was built by them? As in actual documentation of what you pass off as fact? Or is this another "you gotta believe me cause I said so" or are we at the point where we are gonna go with Luigi Snuffleupagusi, Tony Snuffleupagusi, and Mario Snuffleupagusi, Jeff Kennedy’s esteemed Ferrari experts that hide behind MiuraSUV to avoid legal peril and thrust him right into it said so?

For a long time going it was claimed that Vaccari and Bosi produced the Piper Chassis, and that was recently stated by an… expert on 12/01/2023 AKA a month and a half ago without any actual documentation of that.

I assume that claim without documentation was wrong? and logic dictates that there is no reason to not consider that this claim of Allegretti and Silvano Cantelli without documentation is wrong as well. It is not a fact till proven with actual evidence.

Like I keep saying, this would be picked apart in a court of law. There are a lot of claims that aren't backed up by actual facts. There are a lot of "experts" that wont show their face, which is nothing but hearsay if they are not willing to show up in a court of law.

Yes, photos of a car as it sat fifty years ago are totally sufficient. Nothing could change. You don’t authenticate something by what could have changed, you authenticate something by what may have remained.

If photos are so sufficient, I’m sure you would buy a $1M plus car just based off off photos right? No need to actually look at it or have an actual professional inspect it, let’s just click buy it now.

I’m sure if someone were to want to get their Series 2 Cab Classiched, they could just send them photos right? Hahahahaha. Good luck with that.

What’s next? Maybe one could just send photos of their 375mm in for the Concours d’Elegance instead of having it critiqued in person! I have to laugh.

Well, if I were Steve-O, I would be concerned with this, as the opposite could be true and he put in great legal peril IMO. If it were my car, and I could prove it was genuine, and by no means am I saying it is, as I have stated many many times, I don’t feel JG has proved his case either, and definitely has less of a case due to these almost 50 year old pictures, and if he cares to explain it to this group, which I’m guessing he doesn’t, then yes he would have to prove his case still IMO. But, lets be honest here, he either won’t admit it isn’t, or he has a reason to believe it is, and I think it’s obvious that he has much better resources at hand than Steve does to study sufficiently the chassis in question. So if Jim believes he can make his case, at that point, yes I would sue Steve into the ground if I were him, as his claims will have devalued the car significantly.

Look guy, if attacking you is questioning your research methods as insufficient, then you are in the wrong game. This isn’t tidily winks, this is an extremely valuable asset, whether Piper Constructed or Ferrari. If you want to swim in this pond, be ready to be questioned.

And, as I have said before, it is not my opinion that your “thorough” research is insufficient, but the educated opinion of an actual qualified historian. As I have stated before, my friends father is considered to be the worlds foremost expert on an extremely valuable item that easily doubles the ticket of any Ferrari ever sold, whether privately or at auction.

He is not some newfound expert with no real formal training that was asking JG years ago what books he should buy to learn more about P3/P4’s. He holds various degrees. He’s been a professor of the subject at an esteemed college for probably the last 40ish years, has published several books on the subject, and curated many shows for the object he specializes in. He is the end all, be all in his particular field.

As I stated before, I was at a birthday party for his grandkids and I brought this 0846 (I’m sorry buddy, 0003) BS up to him. When I questioned him if pictures from an objects past could verify with absolute certainty that an object wasn’t what it was claimed to be due to there were differences between the past pictures and how the objects sits today, and I’m not saying this for laughs or to rib ya, but he literally laughed, as he stated that you do not authenticate an object from what has changed, as through time any object has the ability to be repaired, changed etc. and the differences will tell you almost nothing. If you truly want to authenticate something, you have to find the one clue that remains the same, even if there is less than 1% of that clue left, to authenticate it you must find that clue. If you can, then it is, I will say more certain to be real. If you can’t find it, I will say, it is more certain to be fake.

There are questions here that the 0003 crowd won’t answer, and those questions will not be pretty in a court of law. A real investigator follows all leads, not just the ones that construct their narrative.

Also your…

Is not true. Just Like you and Mr. Kennedy are currently banned from participating in this thread, I was banned as well for saying you were a bit insane in your quest/vendetta (or something like that) and I believe? Rob Lay? banned me for a week or so. I may have only been banned once or maybe three times, I don’t remember, but I have been banned.

Moral of that story… Before you make a claim, do your research, or your credibility will go down the drain fast.

Have a great day.

 

I must define my "Original sin" by posting my most damning questions.
Truly bully bully, mean and of course, very ignorant.

swift53 said: ↑
Let's call it an authentic really original, replica wannabee, perhaps, if you maybe, possibly, want it to be
whatever you want. Just click your heels a la Judy.

Reply by Miura:
No, let's call it what it is. A fake. Like many contributing to this thread over the years, you don't have a clue.



miurasv said: ↑
No, let's call it what it is. A fake. Like many contributing to this thread over the years, you don't have a clue.

My my, by Jove, Steven, Can't you tell 'tongue in cheek'?

OK, it is a fake, not an authentic really original, replica wannabee, perhaps, if you maybe, possibly, want it to be
whatever you want. AKA FAKE. OK? Yes, it is rather the fake car. I never said it was real, or even close. I ignore where you get that.

I am too ignorant, and do not have a clue to call it a FAKE, as lack the agility to perform the 'acid test' on it, or the metal analyzer, or the keys to the garage.
So what?

Brexit has really pulled one on you Brits

Regards, Alberto


miurasv said: ↑
@ylshih So you're happy for the above poster to carry on continually making personal attacks against me.
The above is just one of many. I don't really care as his posts reflect on him rather than me.

Steven, I don't really lose sleep over this, but I fail to see your name quoted. Why take it personally?
Just ignore it and sleep better.

Regards, Alberto

And of course the infamous "This, is like Shrek Vs. Lord Farquaad "

I know I am going to hell, where everyone is reading a newspaper waste deep in dung, until after the break is over

Regards to all

The Bully.

 

I can't believe how this thread has devolved (again). It's like grade school, and very disappointing. "Beating a horse to death" doesn't come close to some of the ongoing back & forth here. I keep thinking (mistakenly) that every time there is a new post in this thread, that it might have some actual information about the damn car!

 

Everything of importance has been made very clear by miurasv, that the "damn car" is a fake, there will never be any actual information to be posted ever again.

Now all we have left is post and riposte.

Do you want to be relegated to my same category, of the: "Like many contributing to this thread over the years, you don't have a clue." ( that would be I)...

No, Marshall, you are way above that, and as you, probably fed up with this BS.

Regards, Bully.

 

It is blatantly obvious from the photos. I can tell from photos... Arnold Schwartzenegger isn't Audrey Hepburn...

The distinction in the photos is obvious.

Also Jim doesn't want people to examine it or do a metallurgy test... So... There is that.

Again the burden of proof is on him.

Again... Why would piper sell 0846? Why would piper sell 0846 as 003? Why would he sell it as it would be a near priceless race car? Why wouldn't one of the most knowledgeable and hands on person of those cars not recognize the car as 0846?

You can sit there and claim because no one inspected it no one will ever know... But... One of the few people left thinking it is authentic is you... So enjoy the thought. It has been shown with evidence for years that it isn't.

You are welcome to supply evidence that it is.... But I guess according to your logic... You would need to inspect it in the flesh.

 

That's reasonable possibility. It becomes a lot of here say... And like you said it's a possibility.

We just know now... That the front of the car/chassis nor the back of the car/chassis is 0846.

So when you couple the possibility with the photos... It rules it out.

Now of course piper could still say all of it and it not be true or based in reality. How many people embellish things when they sell stuff...

 

I wonder how many times Jim has had it tested, how many times he’s had it inspected by recognized experts, how many times he’s pleaded with Ferrari, and how many times he’s been assured the car is a fake and yet doesn’t disclose any of those results so that people might assume it’s him not wanting it inspected versus him not wanting to divulge anything that goes against his tall tale.

 

Yes, I understand the whole thing, all the well presented evidence, etc, etc. And... yes, I am fed up with all the mud slinging BS.

 

Based on silence and his litigious nature I would say that there is a high degree of probability that the all sign NDAs

 

I can see into the future. I see an old Rob Lay gimping up to the podium for the Internet Hall of Fame to accept the award for the longest running thread on the Internet. Rob then says, "I'm going to ban all you mutherchuthers. Goddammit, can't you see I'm the only person that counts!

 

I think it was around $1 million... that is what I recall from one of his posts. And that would definitely be a premium at that time (around 2000) for a replica.