My top had been working perfect, I haven’t used it the last few months. Are there position sensors that can get off? When trying to put it down it would start moving the seat back before all the arms had tucked tightly into firewall. Then when putting it back up it would stop in this position and I had to hold it driving home. thanks! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Quite the headscratcher. Firstly, during the up cycle, are the hooks engaging the pins on both sides? Since the top part of the canvas seems to be fully stretched (closed position), it's like the bottom part isn't fully up. From your description, it's hard to tell if the problem is mechanical, hydraulic or electric. In any case, it's not possible to bypass the Roof ECU with the emergency switches as the emergency bypass system doesn't operate the roof at this point of closing. The strange thing is, you should be able to manually operate the roof at this point without hydraulics. I don't think it's a hydraulic lock issue. As soon as you took your hand off the roof switch, the secondary hydraulic system "F1" valve should have relaxed, allowing the fluid to return to the reservoir. I would at least check the hooks are engaging and that the hydraulic fluid level is ok. My roof is playing up at the moment and I'm reluctant to see if this is normal or not. During roof opening, the trigger for the seats to move back is the S1 & S3 switches inside the primary cylinders. The seats are activated when both (?) primary pistons are fully extended. Image Unavailable, Please Login Are the switches being triggered prematurely or is this fairly normal on these cars? Are the S1/S3 switches triggered slightly before full piston extension?
Don't know how often you open the top on your spider. I hardly ever drive it top up, so I decided to convert it into manual, after I got tired of experiencing the typical issues for this car. I never looked back. It's easy, can be done a minute and by one person, to both open or close it. The conversion wasn't that costly either.
If your hooks are not engaging, it sounds like a hydraulic issue, but in the meantime you may be able to force the hooks into position (with a helper or two) whilst operating the roof switch... at least to get your roof closed.
you mean the top hooks that go into here? Is there some type of electrical sensor here metal on metal or it just knows when in position? Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm talking about when the roof goes up. But, yes, those hooks. The Roof ECU knows when the primary part of the roof is up or down by internal switches in the primary actuators. There are no sensors on those metal pads. Internal switches S1 and S2 are on the left side. S3 and S4 are on the right side. Image Unavailable, Please Login i.e. hidden from view. You can check them electrically, but not visually inspect them. Focus on the hooks first. Then check fluid. If all good, I suppose we should establish if others have seat movement before the roof is fully down. It may be normal. We may need a consensus.
what do you mean hooks? the ones that go into those pads? the pegs in front I know to make sure unlatched when ready to fully close.
Have you had any other issues with the roof other than understanding the operation when you first got the car? https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147974393/
they get within about 2 inches of there before everything locks up and won't move more, smiliar to how in the first picture it is locked in that position and won't go anymore because I guess hydraulics staying pressurized.
Well they need hydraulic pressure to get them on the pins. If the hooks are not mating with the pins, I guess there could be a number of possibilities: 1) lack of fluid 2) some gross force put on the roof, damaging the mechanical bits 3) premature actuation of the secondary ram system
Regarding 3), I assume the "fully retracted" switches (S2 & S4) inside both primary rams need to be activated before the "F1" solenoid (in the left roof buttress area, behind the driver) activates the secondary system, putting the roof down on the windshield. It seems odd to me that both would be malfunctioning (to make the secondary ram system activate early). Also, with the secondary system active during the final stage of roof closure, I don't think the primary system is necessarily deactivated. I'm thinking that there may be a lack of fluid (to feed both the primary and secondary systems at the same time). Either that or the system needs rebleeding to get the fluid in the right places. How long has it been since Norwoods worked on it?
James Patterson from Norwoods called and was very helpful. I can't try it tonight, but what he said makes sense. He doesn't think its hydraulics. He says based on where it freezes up going back that when I first start going back with the roof I need to make sure the bow above my head goes up. That's makese sense that the first movement back that cross bar needs to go more up so that in the back motion it doesn't hang up. I'm going to give it a try this coming week.
The bow should only affect opening (and the proper folding of the canvas when the roof goes fully down). Unless the bow wasn't in the right position when going down and the roof was forced to go down damaging the mechanism.
Ugh... not necessarily related, but I've just noticed a contradiction in the Workshop Manual regarding the labelling of the ram internal microswitches which will affect my diagrams.
Left hand piston switches S1 and S2 are shown on one page of the WSM Image Unavailable, Please Login But on another page of the WSM, a wiring diagram shows S3 and S4 as being the left hand ram switches. Image Unavailable, Please Login I would have to pull my car to pieces to confirm which is which.... unless someone already has their roof system in pieces. The roof ECU probably doesn't care which is which, but when diagnosing faults, this will make things difficult. The paper wiring diagrams agree with the WSM wiring diagram (although the individual switch internals looks slightly different).
After pulling my car partially to pieces, I confirmed that the wire colours in the wiring diagrams match those of the right hand ram, so the left/right labelling is correct in the WSM wiring diagrams and the OEM paper diagrams. This means that some of the graphics in the WSM need to be corrected. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Just so I'm understanding you properly... Are the hydraulics closing (unfolding) the top part of the roof? Or did you pull on the top part of the roof to extend it towards the window? Either way, the roof canvas (top half) looks taut. This means there must be something wrong with the primary system or lower part mechanicals, because the hooks are not engaging.
James was exactly right, just slight pressure on the cross bow when going back and everything went easily into place. So simple, but nothing I would have figured out myself especially since it had never happened to me before. Not a lot of pressure just a tiny bit. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Obviously it’s not normal. When the roof is operating normally, you shouldn’t need manual intervention. It’s common to have an issue with the roof going down and this is usually fixed with new elastics, but I don’t see how you can have an issue going back up unless the hydraulics are not working properly or something is bent. Perhaps a video will help us understand what is going on or can’t it be reproduced now?
