Understand but Ferrari is the best branding company in the world - sorry but VAG is nowhere close. The value is not in the car inasmuch the brand - that's how good Ferrari is and there really is no stopping them as they are the benchmark. Let's face it - most owners walk in a dealership fall in love and drive away with a smile. These forums / Bat are a very small percentage of owners.
I think eventually the SF90 can bounce back if Ferrari has no V8 replacement. But if not, i dont see it happening, esp since Revueltos are in for about the same money ($600k and up). Other thing to consider is where does Ferrari goes from the 296GTB? That car is almost as fast as the SF90 and will most likely get a LE or some sort of lightweight version, and then the replacement will be mind-blowing fast. I wonder how many people would cross shop for a used SF90 at $500k versus being able to order a new 296 GTB replacement in 3 years or so?
Amazing car, but they built a crap ton of them. I think the value trends down gently. I say that as an owner.
if you compare a SF90 to a 296 next to each other, IMHO, the SF90 looks like a supercar and the 296 does not have the road appeal and does not look like a $425k to over 500k car. I would get a SF90 pre-enjoyed vs a 296 without thinking twice.
As a (UK) owner of many models, my feelings are: 812 stays ok, especially the Comp which should be above list price for the rest of its life. 812 has done most of its depreciating and I think it will always be ahead of F12 because it is a better car. Looks are always subjective, some prefer one, some the other. SF90 will be weak for a while. It’s such a good car that in 3-5 years, when everyone is focused on the replacement at another £200k more, a used SF90 will start to look like good value. And by ‘weak’, I mean between £100k and £200k off list (currently closer to £200k) -so I really do mean weak. US hasn’t caught up yet but if I were pushed, feels like they will end up there in the medium term too. But, heavy depreciation in the short term is guaranteed, recovery in the long term is too far away to be confident. SF90 XX should be ok but will not be as strong as Comp early doors (Ferrari must believe that too, hence the lower numbers). Percentage wise it will settle a bit behind Comp after a few years but might have a brighter long-term. Why? Numbers, plus with the replacements and the continued move towards hybrid/electric, I think it could be viewed quite well. Its performance won’t be old for quite a while and it looks amazing, very aggressive. People will come to say “that old XX, it’s so raw…” Purosangue demand will be ahead of supply for a while so I think it will be ok for a bit but used demand will only be driven by people who can’t wait because those who can wait will be able to get a new one eventually IMO. So, it will be a good not great used car (i.e. hold rather than appreciate in the medium term). Long term it depreciates. F167 should be ok but remember, history is against it. All the standard V12s have depreciated. The only way it holds value is if they cannot produce many because of PS taking the allocations. Cue the end of V12 PS allocations as that car moves to hybrid…. Then they might build a lot of F167s. It’ll depreciate again if that happens. A lot of people on the V12 section talk themselves into a froth but the fact is, most higher-end Ferrari customers prefer the mid-engined cars to the front-engined V12s. F167 will be expensive and probably more technical (expensive to maintain suspension systems etc) without being significantly faster or more aggressive. F167 works financially if they do a 167 Comp and you can get one. That car might well be the last track-special version of a standard series front V12 and if it is it will be good news. Pista, should be ok but behind Speciale. It’s a great car though, one of the greatest. We don’t have a 296 but they will depreciate, a little less percentage wise than the SF90 early on, but after 5 or so years, the percentages will be in favour of SF90 in my view. SF90 will have a reasonable floor but I’m not sure 296 will. Only a view.
sf90's are down tons atm, 296's are down tons atm, pistas are down a bit, speciales are down slightly I personally wouldn't bank on the sf90/296 recovering Puro will take ages to dip under list imo just because the demand is crazy strong
At some point we all know the Ferrari game is long term and for those players it' will pay off. Getting to be among the first at something special has a price - like sitting in first class vs back of the bus. Plane arrives / departs same time for all. In n out like a fast food restaurant or BaT "fire auctions" will never end well. These thread are to focussed on price vs the long term enjoyment of a hobby. Best experience is to build a relationship with the dealer when it comes to new Ferrari's.
My thoughts as of now: (1) You should buy what you enjoy and like. (2) the SF90 was rough when it first came out - it was also around the covid time so the didn't sell very well when they started. they didnt' get very good reviews from the car people either so it was tougher. and then when they released the 296 - which is a very similar performaning car for half the price, they further dug a hole. (3) the number of sf90s for sale over the past few years on cars.com seems to have hovered in the 100 +/- 25 cars. as of this morning, it's over 150! (27x spider, 124x stradale) (4) unlike many other special series, to get the xx, you had to agree to continue to hold your sf90 and not sell it before you accept delivery. (5) the sf90 was originally purchasable by 'anyone' - meaning there were no pre-ownership requirements, so they cast the net pretty wide. it may have even been used to attract new customers or stave off some from going to other brands with similar performance metrics. this could also mean (a) more cars were produced than we all think [2200?] and/or (b) there may have been more first time buyers who were thinking of flipping or simply didn't identify with the brand after their experience (or something else) (6) the overall used (super)car market seems to be thawing still. we did see big advances in things like the 458s and that is also slowing/cooling. (7) most base model ferraris have a 10 year decline before they stabilize and start to rise slowly again. typically it goes to some fraction of the msrp (50%, 63%, or whatever), and then starts to close the gap halfway towards msrp (so it's only off 25%, 31.5%, or whatever), and then the market either decides they like it and it keeps going up (speciale), or not (fizzles away, like the 456 or FF). (8) it is still too early to know the fate of these cars IMO, but it does seem worse than many others. (9) we don't know what the impact of smaller engines and more electrification will be out 5-10 years to the future. will there be a resurgence in the 'transition cars'? again, too early to know. (10) i have asked myself many, many times what the segment filled by the sf90 is that wasn't filled by something else: what is it great at? and my answer after some years of ownership is that it's "great at being very good at a lot of things" instead of "being great at one thing and sucking at everything else." there are two main areas where the difference from the sf90 and 296 show. the first is rain/snow/winter weather - the sf90 is what you're going to want. the second is the feminine appeal: it seems to me women prefer the sf90 over the 296 for i don't know why.
No clue. I’m just a keyboard warrior with no real certifiable insight. My understanding is that Ferrari made…a bunch of Pista. My suspicion is about 6-10X as many Pista as there are SF90 and 765LT. I love mine and plan on having it…forever. Fantastic car, and for my money, the most beautiful modern Ferrari.
Ah, my mistake. You were talking about Pistas. Yes, my understanding is the same as yours. That Ferrari made a lot of Pistas. That said, I wish I knew the actual SF90 production numbers.
So interesting. I also heard they built a **** ton of Pista. Heard 3k to 4k. But somehow there are close to 3x Sf90 for sale. SF90 are rarer than Pista surely? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
To be fair - Pista Spider the track version vs SF90 AF Spider track version and or coupe. Puro is going to put a major dent in production - there's a whole div for hyper car and regardless what I and others lose on SF90SAF the XX will more than make up for it as it will for 1400 owners. The XX has tiers with packages offerings even more limited. Carbon pkg and Hyper car. Point - with Puro production the limited editions may be shrinking - XX may be a good example.of the future. People should love their Pastas and maybe they didn't have the desire to own both. In time I think that changes - people will desire a hyper car Ferrari. Time will tell.
@Divexxtreme https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V698-6081.PDF At least 614 (for USA)...it appears to not include 2021 models, but that would seem impossible, the starting VIN in the PDF is much later than most MY2022 SF90s
I agree the 296 does not have the same supercar look. However, im wondering which one is the best to drive considering the 296 is probably a good 200 kgs lighter and RWD only.
This thread really isn't about helping people buy an SF90 at market - it's more about beating up the SF90 and why that's a thing is ridiculous.
How do you come to that conclusion, this thread includes facts, and facts are always useful. The fact is, the secondary market is not entirely interested in the SF90, that's the observation/conclusion. And that is useful if you are wanting to purchase a pre-owned SF90, hold out for a better price, dealer inventories are growing much faster than they are selling. And about to grow even more as SF90XX arrives and those owners trade in the SF90 they had to hold on to in order to purchase the SF90XX. That means lower prices ahead, guaranteed on this one point not to mention growing preowned inventories show no sign of decreasing. Again, very helpful insights if your intention is to purchase.
While I don’t disagree with the essence of your point, I will say having just sold my F8 and Portofino M, neither of them excited the secondary market either, despite being low miles and fantastic specs. Given the much higher price point, one would expect the SF90’s to sit longer. So, I don’t think this is specific to the SF90. Hell, dealers have a years worth of Dodge Ram inventory right now. Moreover, many of my Pateks are worth half of what they were less than two years ago…
Since the SF90 is the Flagship, it is more comparable to the previous flagship, the 812, and fewer than 10% of all 812SF+GTS made for USA are currently on the pre-owned market (using autotrader as reference), the SF90 has generally been 20% + As for the F8 and Portofino+M, fewer than 10% of each of those models are currently listed for sale and that is typical, it is the SF90 that has an unusually large share of production being offered in pre-owned, and that's been the case for quite some time and it is not getting any better. That is meaningful and suggests there is a rather sparse demand for pre-owned for a car that is now out of production. Prices have dropped considerably as well, with wholesale being substantially down, basically at 458Speciale levels...and for a car whose list price was generally double that of the 458Speciale that is not where you want to see SF90 pricing, but, there it is.
Thanks for this. The recall only covers MYs 22-24 (specifically, 614 built for the US within a 10-month production window between 07 Nov 2022 and 19 Sep 2023), but using that info and the fact that US cars started being delivered to customers as early as Dec 2020, I can infer that at a estimated production rate of 736 US cars per year, there was probably a total of around 2,000-2,200 SF90s produced for the US (similar to the US Pista numbers I've previously heard), which would put the percentage of SF90s currently for sale (148 total on Cars.com) at around 6.7%-7.4%. Not bad at all!
Speculative - and IMO wrong. I won't sell my SF90 Spider for XX nor will others in fact most. You answered your own question - market or posts aren't interested in the SF90 why post in market price thread. Bought Speciale used two years later old 360k - 406MSRP - now 600k Bought a 16M two years after production 255k - 355MSRP - now 350k plus Scuds Stradales all went down and came back - Pista and Pista Spider are doing well. SF90 is a little different. Coupe Spider AF Pkg. There are 2 models 2 packages and depending what someone wants that model market varies. To pick a BaT auction or fire sale and associate that with every SF90 that's been made for many years is far from accurate with years models spiders etc. SF90AF & Spider bargain today and will rise just like others with similar production being key. Track version models / drivers cars always do better long term add Spider even more so. Ferrari Aston Lambo - watch who wins the 1000hp long term price ... history with a dip in the market is when smart money steps in. A lot of guys got in over their head and we are seeing them showing knee jerk reactions - nothing more nothing less.
