Quad rings to replace Camshaft O ring seals | FerrariChat
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Quad rings to replace Camshaft O ring seals

Discussion in '308/328' started by Freddie328, Feb 20, 2024.

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  1. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    391
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    #1 Freddie328, Feb 20, 2024
    Im thinking of changing the O ring camshaft seals to Quad ring seals, in my 328. The profile of a quad ring seems more suitable for this type of application.
    QUAD-RING 53.34 x 5.33 BS330 Nitrile 70 Rubber.
    Has anyone made this conversion? If so did it prolong the the life compared to standard O rings?
    I'm pretty sure I've got the correct size but verification from an expert would be good.
    TIA for any help
     
  2. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    391
    Herts, UK
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    Richard
    #2 Freddie328, Feb 20, 2024
    * meant Viton, not Nitrile
     
  3. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
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    #3 Rifledriver, Feb 20, 2024
    The O rings work great when correctly installed and update performed.
     
  4. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    391
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    #4 Freddie328, Feb 20, 2024
    Hi Rifledriver, which update are you referring to?
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
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    #5 Rifledriver, Feb 20, 2024
    The factory update to the seal holder.
     
  6. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    391
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    #6 Freddie328, Feb 20, 2024
    I wasn't aware of that update. Would my September 88 328 have this mod, and do you know what the mod entailed?
     
  7. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Dec 7, 2003
    16,453
    Winston Salem, NC
    #7 Ricambi America, Feb 20, 2024
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
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    Brian Crall
    #8 Rifledriver, Feb 20, 2024
  9. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    Dec 7, 2003
    16,453
    Winston Salem, NC
    #9 Ricambi America, Feb 20, 2024
    I thought the 328 and 348 used the same carrier, so the need to groove/cut it would have been the same. No?
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
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    Brian Crall
    #10 Rifledriver, Feb 20, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2024
    We didnt have oil leakage issues with QV or 328. It didn't really start until 348/Mond t for some reason. Maybe poor crank breathing. Anyway all those steps started with 348/Mond t. I have never felt the need to drill the heads on a 328. My own 328 has not had the valve covers off since about 2012 and It doesn't leak a drop. I did do the grooving to the cam seal carriers. A few minutes with a round file is all it takes. Then radiusing the O ring grove ends in the valve cover. The gasket also needs to be cut back so no contact with the O ring. That and the valve cover sharp edge were found to be cutting the O rings. All TSBs .

    We did have severe oil leak issues at the distributors but that was a different issue. It was the 1st design rotor extension. Those were redesigned and directional seals fixed that. That was on TR, 328, Mondial 3.2 and 412.
     
    Ricambi America likes this.
  11. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    391
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    #11 Freddie328, Feb 20, 2024
    Ah, yes. It's coming back to me now. Several, seems like many, years ago I had previously radiused the cam cover but didn't remove the cam so not the seal carrier.
    I'm removing the cam cover, again, to revisit a job I didn't finish last year . I had noticed that one inlet valve on the front bank was 0.0005" tight and the O ring was damaged by being pinched against the cover gasket. I just didn't have time to re shim the valve bucket so left it as, with some silicon on the damaged O ring. Judging by the extra cam noise when warm, I assumed that the clearances increase when the engine is warm so this very small out of spec clearance would be ok?
    I've decided to revisit this and take the opportunity to change the eaten O ring and other seals whilst doing a cam belt change. Is there anything to look out for when removing the cam?
     
  12. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,608
    California SF bay area
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    Paul
    #12 kcabpilot, Feb 20, 2024
    I used the quads when I did mine and no leaks but probably wouldn't be any leaks if I had used the o-rings. Same goes for longevity, if in ten years I can say still no leaks there will be a guy with o-rings saying same here. Oher than a structured and controlled test there is no data other than hearsay and opinion.
     
    mixedgas likes this.
  13. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #13 Rifledriver, Feb 20, 2024
    F ten thousanths
    They may be great as far as I know. I do know I have put together a lot of dry engines using the correct O rings. Lost of incorrect generic rings being sold.
    Just see no reason to experiment.
     
  14. bitsobrits

    bitsobrits Formula Junior
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    Nov 12, 2011
    750
    Omaha, NE area, US
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    Steve
    #14 bitsobrits, Feb 20, 2024
  15. bitsobrits

    bitsobrits Formula Junior
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    Nov 12, 2011
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    #15 bitsobrits, Feb 20, 2024
  16. miked

    miked Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2001
    899
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    #16 miked, Feb 20, 2024
    For sure. Cheap Chinese O rings, which is about all you can get these days, are more of an approximation dimension wise. Often the mold line is visible right where the "seal" is made when used in a rotary application. Throw in the fact that there are a plethora of standards, each with it's own dimensions. Yesterday I was trying to find the proper O ring to use in a specific gland (machined groove) and ran across this web page listing multiple "standards" even within DIN.

    https://www.globaloring.com/oring-size-charts/
     

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