Ferrari 348 stalling when returning to idle | FerrariChat

Ferrari 348 stalling when returning to idle

Discussion in '348/355' started by dobsqc, Feb 23, 2024.

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  1. dobsqc

    dobsqc Rookie

    Jul 20, 2023
    4
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Hi guys, i’m chasing a problem on my ferrari 348.

    The car is all original besides the removal of the anti-pollution/egr and an exhaust system (cats removed).

    This summer I had problems with idle surging, rough running sometimes and backfires (intermitent). I’ve been chasing the problem and so far I have done the following ;

    -Got both MAF rebuilded by fuel injection corp

    -Changed the fuel pressure regulators and fuel pressure regulator lines (one of the line seemed like it was leaking vacuum)

    -Removed and cleaned the IACs (didnt seem to do much)

    -tested the crank sensors (replaced them with KIA interchangable parts.. those did not work at all.. replaced the « older original one » and car started on first purr.

    My current problem is the following :

    Car start extremly well (half crank) and runs well when cold. No problem until the car is hot. The idle is good and no surging when cold.

    When the car comes hot ; sometimes the check engine 5-8 flashes and has « weird running conditions » for brief seconds. The check engine light does not stays on. If revving the car high and releasing the gas pedal, the idle doesnt seem to catch quick enough and the car stalls.

    Here is a video of the cold operation vs hot operation.

    What could be causing this ?
     
  2. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,728
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Did you try pulling the ecu codes to see what it says, may be a good place to start.
     
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  3. dobsqc

    dobsqc Rookie

    Jul 20, 2023
    4
    Full Name:
    Dave
    I did.

    No codes stay in memory. The Check Engine Flashes for a brief 1 seconds and go away when it happens. The ecu does not keep the code active..

    The only code I have as of right now is 4121, because my cat ecu is disconnected.
     
  4. FloridaIsland348

    Aug 5, 2022
    118
    Pensacola Beach
    Full Name:
    Scott Wheatley
    Air bypass screw...? I had a stall issue that seems to have disappeared with a simple slight turn of the screw.
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/engine-cuts-off-when-the-ac-is-on.678921/#post-149187176
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  5. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,547
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    You can guess and throw parts and efforts at it. Or you can perform systematic troubleshooting.

    If it were my car, I would take weld an extra O2 sensor bung in each of the cat bypass pipes. Then, I connect a full-spectrum AFR sensor to that port and read the air fuel ratio when the car is having problem. It will tell me ...

    a) what bank is having problem
    b) whether it is running lean or rich, either will cause what you are seeing.

    Armed with that information, I will look for vacuum leak, fuel leak, sensors, injectors etc.
     
    ernie likes this.
  6. dobsqc

    dobsqc Rookie

    Jul 20, 2023
    4
    Full Name:
    Dave
  7. dobsqc

    dobsqc Rookie

    Jul 20, 2023
    4
    Full Name:
    Dave
    For information.

    I decided to throw part at it. I put 2 brand new IACs. Seemed to remove the check engine flashing light and rough idle. Idle was better. But problem of shut down was still there.

    I decided to change and put 2 new o2 sensors. Didnt change much. Cleaner idle (but almost insignificant).

    I decided to unscrew of a 3/4 of a turn the idle screw, on both side.

    The last item fixed the problem. The car does not shut off at all and keeps a perfect 1000 idle. Thanks for the suggestion
     
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  8. FloridaIsland348

    Aug 5, 2022
    118
    Pensacola Beach
    Full Name:
    Scott Wheatley
    It seemed like the older guys where messing with me about the screw, but a very small amount of adjustment cured the problem for me.
    Also the old unplug the batt for a minute and then let idle for 15.
     
  9. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,216
    Serbia - Niš
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    The amount of opening of the bypass screw does not directly set the idle speed but it is there to bring the IAC "within range". The bypass and IAC operate in parallel as a fixed plus variable opening. If the bypass opening is too small, the ICV will not be able to control the idle speed when larger amount of bypass air is required. The IAC may open fully (trying to prevent the idle speed drop) but that opening, combined with too small fixed opening of the screw, may be insufficient to prevent engine stalling.

    On my 348, I experimented with bypass screw positions between 1 and 3 turns out. Whatever bypass opening I selected did not change the idle speed at all because it is the ECUs that hold the idle speed at 1050 rpm via the IACs (I finally set the screws at 1.5 turns out, but optimal opening will vary from car to car). If the bypass screw opening is too small or too large, the IAC will not be able to controll the idle speed correctly/timely and the engine may stall (too small bypass opening) or the idle speed may get higher and fluctuate up-down (too large bypass opening).

    I will list on Ebay today the manual idle speed controller that I developed. It plugs into the IACs and holds both IACs at exactly the same opening as selected by the potentiometer of the controller. In this way, the idle speed can be fixed at 850 (+/- 50) rpm for the purpose of balancing the vacuums of the banks via the bypass screws.

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  10. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    What you really need to do is hook up a manometer to the plenums and balance the intake from side to side. I do this by disconnecting the idle air control valves and then adjusting the bypass screws. I also made sure that the throttle bodies are opening/closing in sync 100%. Once everything is dead nuts on the money = then I reconnect the IACVs. I will also disconnect the battery for one minute, reconnect the battery, and then perform the 15–20 minute relearn warm up parameters, letting the car sit and idle with everything turned off and touching absolutely nothing, followed by a 30 minute drive around town and on the highway. That gives the Motronic ECUs a chance to learn the initial start up positions of the throttle position sensors, and the running parameters of the engine.
     
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  11. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,216
    Serbia - Niš
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    I tried to do plenum balance with the IACVs just disconnected (electrically only, unplugged 3-pin connectors) but the idle speed went to some 1,500 rpm and the manual states that the balancing should be done at 850 (+/- 50) rpm which, I believe, is controlled by the Ferrari tool called "Ferrari Tester" which is connected to the left and right IACVs (pic). This is why I developed "My Tester".

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  12. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    My idle was also high when I initially balanced everything. I like getting the idle set mechanically first. For starters, my bypass screws were turned out way too far and were not even in there adjustments. I had to turn one if them in a few turns to bring the idle down to around 850 RPM. Then the throttle bodies weren’t opening/closing in sync. Those had to be adjusted via the arms attaching to the throttle linkage. The next thing that needed to be adjusted was the throttle stops underneath the throttle bodies. Making sure that both throttle plates were coming to a rest on the stops at the same time, while paying attention to the throttle plates, making sure they close fully, but without binding on the inner diameter of the throttle body. Then, balancing the plenums via tiny adjustments on either the bypass screws or/and the throttle stops. Once I had everything balanced, idling, revving and coming back down to a rest without stalling or over idling then I hooked the idle air control valve back up. That way when the IACVs are hooked back up the Motronics can controlled the idle easier. The car ran great after that, and had no more issues with the idle.
     

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