Is there an easier way to change the fuel pumps? | FerrariChat

Is there an easier way to change the fuel pumps?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by N17RO, Feb 27, 2024.

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  1. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2013
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    Craig
    Hi all,

    Just changing a fuel pump and the car has about 3/4 of fuel in it.

    I cannot crimp the fuel lines to the pump as the pump end and fuel tank outlet almost butt each other. I'm assuming other than pure speed of getting the old one off and the new one on I will have to drain the tank?

    Its just I don't have anything large enough to take that amount of fuel. So thought I'd ask a stupid question!
     
  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    what car?
    you not have other cars for fill in the fuel? ask someone how like to get it.
    remove the outlet fuel line from the pump and connect a long fuel hose with the right adapter and the other end in the car what will get your fuel and let the fuelpump run ( jump the fuel pump relais ). easy thing to do
     
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  3. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2013
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    Thanks Joe but thats part of the issue. The pump is dead and will not run. Its a '92 Testarossa.

    Think I might need to syphon it out and just add it to the other cars like you've suggested. Didn't think of that. Thanks.
     
  4. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    you have 2 pumps, so no problem to use only one. the tanks are connected with each other
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Easy way??? There are safe ways and everything else.
    You cannot get all the gas out with a siphon and you need to get all the gas out. Too many people have been horribly burned draining car fuel tanks. Its not something to shortcut. Spilling gas on a garage floor and a water heater nearby with you under there wearing gas soaked clothes? Get some polly jugs and one spout as pictured. Available local parts houses, speed shops etc. Get it up on a rack and use the drain plug the way it is supposed to be done. Be safe. Killing yourself and burning down the house is a bad idea and in the car business we hear about it all the time.

    And replace the hoses feeding the pumps. They always need it.
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  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 Steve Magnusson, Feb 27, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2024
    TR (and 512TR) have 2 fuel pumps (in a single common tank) -- both are dead? Also, if you are trying to run them electrically by jumping the fuel pump relay sockets as romano suggested, have you inspected the white connectors terminals for burning/frazzling?

    Also, please clarify whether TR or 512TR -- by 1992, the "model year" was encoded in the VIN so "'92 Testarossa" seems a little bit strange. Is it only your gov't documents that say it's a "1992", or does your VIN decode as "1992 model year"?
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Good points but...92 still said Testarossa on the back.
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Understood, but that's why the question (and since 512TR pumps mount from the top, and don't have the "cannot crimp the fuel lines to the pump as the pump end and fuel tank outlet almost butt each other" problem = I'd guess that it is a TR and only "1992" by gov't paperwork. However, would like to know what's in the VIN decode.)
     
  9. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2013
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    Hi Steve,

    Tested the electrical connections all the way to the pump. It gets power but is not running. Yes there are two of them but only one failed.
    The car is documented as a January 1992 car.
     
  10. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

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    Thanks for the replys guys. I've decided to just buy a larger fuel holding tank and drain directly into that. Didn't think there would be any easy way around it.
     
  11. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

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    Thanks for the concern but I'm not looking to do it in a dangerous way either. Just wanted to see if there was an easier route.
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 Steve Magnusson, Feb 27, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2024
    If you've still got one working fuel pump, you can just remove the small rubber hose on the bank with the working fuel pump (that goes back to the tank) from the fuel pressure regulator metal return line, then put a much longer small rubber hose on the fuel pressure regulator metal return line going out of the engine bay to a small container on the ground. Then by removing the fuel pump relay and putting a jumper from 30-to-87 in the fuel pump relay socket:

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    the fuel pump will run (even key "off") and pump fuel into your container (so you can do it in small manageable batches by disconnecting/reconnecting the jumper). Much safer than removing the drain plug on a very full fuel tank. Gasoline is a very "thin" liquid -- you know how fast engine oil gushes out of a drain plug? -- fuel gushes out much, much faster. Be safe.

    PS The fuel pump relays are labeled in a very confusing way:

    The relay labeled for the RH fuel pump is for the fuel pump mounted on the RH side of the chassis, but actually supplies fuel to the 7-12 (LH) bank; likewise,

    The relay labeled for the LH fuel pump is for the fuel pump mounted on the LH side of the chassis, but actually supplies fuel to the 1-6 (RH) bank.

    But what does "documented" mean? In the gov't issued documents, or in the Ferrari VIN?
     
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  13. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

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    Hi Steve, the 92 is on Documents not the VIN.

    I've replaced both pumps and fuel lines as I didn't want to be doing it all again anytime soon.

    But i cant get it to fire up. Its not been ran in about 9 months so im going through KE manual doing some testing but cant figure out which if these is the actual return to the pressure regulator.

    Do you know if 1 or 2 marked on the attached is the return line?

    Thanks


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  14. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    no. 1 is return line because in flow direction the no. 1 is going to the fuel pressure regulator
     
  15. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If you mean it won't even "cough" on one of the banks during a start attempt = have you confirmed that you have spark on both banks during cranking?

    Very rare to have simultaneous fuel injection problems on both banks = it would usually fire up on one bank.

    Here is a description of the various functions of the fuel lines connected to the TR KE-Jet fuel pump regulator and fuel distributor:
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  16. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

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    Thanks for the diagram Steve, its very helpful the WSM doesn't show what is what.

    It does cough but thats all. I did check all plugs wires and turned it over on each with a tester to ensure I was getting spark. Which I am.

    I'll do a pressure test, check the return line and check the line from the lower chamber today and see whats happening.
     
  17. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

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    So an update, both banks are the same:

    I have high fuel pressure going to the FDs its 8 bar.
    I have zero fuel pressure coming out of the FD's to the main injectors.
    I have high fuel pressure again going to the cold start injectors.

    I had around 500ml /min coming out of the small return from the lower chamber to the FPR.

    However I had zero fuel coming from the FPR to the return line.
     
  18. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    8 bar is to high
    I think both FPR are gone? because no fuel at the return line

    you may push down the plate in the FD ( is think with FD you mean the fuel distributor? ). if the plate is not down there is no fuel going to the injectors
     
  19. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

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    Correct Joe the FD plates are not moving down when the car is trying to start. I've just ordered 2 FPR's they must have ceased over the time its been sat idle. Hopefully it all runs after they are installed.
     
  20. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    you have the injectors out? then try to push down the plates. you have very high fuel pressure so it needs some power to push them down. or wait until you see that the pressure is down again and then push the plates

    I hope for you but not think so. the FPR´s are blocked, so I think also the FD. that looks for much work.
    you may knock with a wooden hammer on the FPR, may be they get loose again? or disconnect the fuel lines and give air pressure on ( if possible 15 bar ). but also may be when the fuel now what is inside will let the FPR work again after a while because the fresh fuel could clean them?
     
  21. N17RO

    N17RO Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2013
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    Hey all,

    Thanks for the help. 2 fuel pumps and 2 FPR's later and its running again. Needs a little bit of a tune up but running well.

    Thanks again,
    Craig
     
  22. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Veteran
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    I’m a big proponent of always rebalancing the banks after messing with the engine. Follow the manual to a T. Using the manometer in the manual is mandatory. Easy to make. Use an external tachometer to dial in the rpm, and balance the vacuum exactly. It’s very touchy and tiny adjustments to the idle screws and air bypass screws yield noticeable swings in vacuum.
     
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