https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/vehicles/jc23_173/1996-ferrari-f512-m Like Tucker said, it's got to be a big misunderstanding
It's been a while since I've posted here - but I guess I'm not a newbie...there's no way a car like this, which is rare and well known known in a community of enthusiasts, could hide in plain sight stolen for 25 years. Let alone could be imported into Europe from Japan and not get flagged as stolen. I couldn't tell from the listing when / how it resided in JPN. But we know it was exported from the EU to the US, and listed on BaT - where no flags were raised. There's something else going on here. It makes sense it was stolen in 1996 or 1997, that's believable, but when was it recovered? Was the owner paid, and surrendered appropriate paperwork? Was it recovered in Germany, or Italy then exported to Japan? I also don't buy that anything can go into Japan with any sort of paperwork having experienced JPN customs (even 25 years ago)...they're worse than the UK on paperwork. Finally, has this car not gone to a dealer in 30 years? Should be pretty easy to figure out. Cars like this have to have service history as a component of their overall value. As soon as it hit any dealer worldwide, they would have flagged the vin as stolen...all leading me to think, this 512 was recovered a long time ago, and an original owner (who was paid on their claim) has come out of the wood work with old papers / luggage to see what happens and make a wrinkle for the sellers who were very likely unaware of any history at the time of their purchase/import/export etc.
I think Marcel Massini could prove much of that wrong. I have no idea if this car was stolen or not but do know as a fact that stolen high end cars get into, registered and used in Japan quite often and then leave for other countries including the USA. .
It is a matter of fact that this car was stolen in Germany 1996. The German owner reclaimed ownership and Broad Arrow withdraws the car. It is a matter of fact that this car was cared or owned or both by the official dealer in Denmark over three years. Seems to be that this official dealer sold the car to the first owner in the US, but don’t know. I’m pretty sure a lot of people including the official dealer in Denmark knew… ‚that there is something wrong with the car‘… but do not care. It’s all a question of money. What to learn? Don’t be sure to buy a proper car with Ferrari dealers. Everything can happen. Red dot in MODIS? Who cares…
You can't just reclaim ownership of an asset which has been previously settled by insurance, whether you're German or American - this is why you sign a release of claim before funding. Withdrawing a car from an auction doesn't mean the original German owner has any legal path to getting the car back today or is justified, but it is enough of a cloud to tank an auction where the car was listed No Reserve. I'm surprised the Ferrari dealer sold the car, if they were aware of any legitimate claims to ownership. Why didn't the original owner not seek some legal recovery action in the EU, when it was for sale at a Ferrari dealer? Perhaps this all happened behind the scenes, and the Ferrari dealer sold it...and here we are, and that guy's still chasing the car around the world.
Much more expensive cars have done precisely that. And law enforcement in Europe is a joke. That's an even bigger joke. @Viking5636 can tell you more about that.
It's possible the original owner was not paid if the car was not insured or maybe even registered. You'd be amazed at the nonsense that goes on in Europe. It's not uncommon to find exotics that are not registered in the country of ownership or insured.
A collector in California who was a neighbor had a Talbot Lago for over 25 years. Vintage raced it. Took it to shows and events, appeared in numerous magazine articles with world wide distribution before it was discovered to be stolen. Talk about rare and in a community of enthusiasts. It was seized and returned to the family in Europe. Owner bought from an international broker. No one ever knew who stole it. Interpol is next to useless. Do try to keep up. Its not that unusual.
FWIW - the site log shows that Ferrari_exp first logged in and entered a name into his profile that has the initials G. W., then he decided to change it to Horst Koester, then H. Koester, then Dr. Ing. H. Koester, then deleted the name entirely. Also his posting location is not Germany. Draw your own conclusions.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1996-ferrari-f512m-2/ https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1996-ferrari-f512-m/
Same seller. Same car. The magic of ... bwahahabat Can't fault @Viking5636 for wanting a car from Denmark though.
Seems to be a now sale again, car is still listed by the seller https://passionforclassics.com/de/oldtimer-auktion/ferrari-512m-1996-5885e5fd-zu-verkaufen
Same story https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ferrari-f1-driver-gerhard-berger-police-b2506406.html Hope this success will be repeated sooner or later
Wow this car seems to have somewhat ‘interesting’ history. I seem to remember reading a good while ago that goods bought in good faith in Japan are regarded in Japanese law as the legal property of the purchaser, even if they are subsequently discovered to have been previously stolen. any subsequent sale is therefore legitimate by that logic. I do stand to be corrected however. Murky (and shark infested) waters indeed.
So this car, 99983, was stolen from Milan in 1997, then was in Japan and later Denmark, and Georgia US, and was last sold on pcarmarket 3 weeks ago? While Berger's car, 99806, was stolen from Imola in 1995, was also shipped to Japan, then recently returned to UK?
Yepp reg. 99983. But the sale on pcmarket was canceled due to this spec chat and other informations given to the high bidder, I was told. We will see what happens next
Here's the factory theft statement from September 1997. Marcel Massini Image Unavailable, Please Login
The pcarmarket site shows sold, but maybe it was canceled afterwards. I presume you saw the seller's comments there, re: cancellation of the Broad Arrows auction and their subsequent confirmation that the original owner has no valid claim to the car, etc?
