430 Lugging engine noise in Manual Tr.

Hi,
I am wondering if you 6 sp manual cars are all the same. Since I swapped my F1 to manual; I can replicate easier the noise I used to hear when engine was slightly lugging; i.e. change second when slightly moving, or go 3rd gear at 10mph etc. You know what I mean.

I heard it in F1 but less so as the F1 was downshifting all the time; now if I am lazy to do a downshift into 2nd for example, and keep going on 3rd gear, I do hear this hissing/grinding noise from the engine; fairly strong. As soon as I go over 2000 RPM's it goes away.

Is that your experience as well with manual transmission?

Thanks

 

Sorry Mario - need a video / sound clip

 

Don't believe I've experienced that, but I usually won't let the revs drop too low for a particular gear without downshifting

It sounds like you are referring to bucking? Not enough revs for a particular low gear at a particular speed?

 

No, it's a harsh dragging noise, like something is creating friction, and the lower is the speed the harder the noise. As soon as RPM's rise, it's gone.

 

When an engine is under load it needs to be accelerating the crank. The more difficult it is to do that (e.g. low torque output while in a high gear that reduces the torque multiplication of the engine), the greater the forces on the rotating assembly as the piston is trying to push down on a crank that is more resistant to accelerating. The noise could be pistons rattling in the cylinder, harmonics, detonation, or something else. It's not healthy for the engine nor is it worth investigating.

 

Without the video ..I can say that the muffler /tail pipes sometimes sound like that at low rpms ..but just guess what you are hearing

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

Very true but the F430 is way noisier than my other cars when " lugging" so I was just wondering if mine is noisier than others.. I will try to record a clip tomorrow if weather ok

 

Are you really driving the car in 3rd gear with 10mph?

 

YES! I love the sound of a lugging engine... just image the struggle, the destruction you can cause....

 

I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly, but if you are running at 10 mph in third gear, you're killing your gearbox

 

Sounds like gear lash due to labouring the engine. Do not drive your car this way - you'll ruin the engine and drive train.

 

That was a wrong description... I DON"T do 3rd gear 10mph.
So listen, you take off in 1st gear, change to second, and circumstances on the road make you slow down, but not to a full stop. You push the clutch in; you realize changing to 1st is not feasible as you're moving too much, so you slowly take off in 2nd gear. That is what I mean, I hear some noise as I slowly accelerate I don't hear in my other (3) manual cars. You can replicate the noise by slowing down a bit in 3rd gear, and accelerate.

I heard this in F1 mode, when I slowed down, but not enough for F1 to switch to 1st, and just took off. I guess it's just a noisier drivetrain and engine.. @flash32 I tried to capture it on the phone but the damn thing is not obvious and the phone only got cabin noise and none of the thing I wanted, so no go. Thanks though.

You all have this extra engine lugging noise of some sort, you are just too old to hear it or you pure and simple ignore it!

EDIT: actually the Shelby GT350R has some similar noise, but different pitch in same circumstance, less obvious though.

I do know what it is about, and it's not just gear lash. It's also the engine trying to keep up with the low revs and make power at 1.2k rpms. It's not good for the engine, hence my question if you are hearing it, as in F1 mode, it's inevitable you will do it, as it does not switch to 1st under a certain speed, and it will "lug" a bit. In manual mode, you have a choice, you can slip the clutch and rev it more, so...

 

Ans you sure it isn't coming from the exhaust system resonance??

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

I doubt it... it feels like gear noise not really exhaust type . My money is on the gears in gearbox. Goes away as soon as rpms climb, pretty much disappears just like engine lugging does when you rev up... I have the stock exhaust .
I was just wondering if anyone else felt it or if mine is special.... sounds like one of those M6 GT3 cars in iRacing I played tonight

 

.. now that I think back since I have the car, I heard the noise with the gearbox oil I got it with (unknown in 2021) , with the Ravenol, and now with the Motul, so it's not oil dependent .. just hashing out some things. Has not become worse though.

 

Too slow to be in 2nd but too fast to be in 1st - is that what you mean?

 

I get what he's saying. I think he means this. If you start out at to low rpm in any gear, other than first, you will gear this noise. For this reason I make sure I never shift a to low of rpm.

 

Which conversion kit do you have? Neither my converted cars do this.

 

This has nothing to do with which conversion kits someone would have. It's a how your shifting issue. One should never go into gear at to low of a rpm.

 

Happens all the time in manuals (not just Ferrari) when you drive in traffic, Let's say I was cruising at 35mph and slow down in traffic to 10mph, you may not want to go into 1st as the synchros would require you to rev-match or "pull though" the synchros to get it into 1st. It really depends on how casual you feel when driving in traffic. If below the "revs" where I would be lugging the engine, which is dependent on the car I'm driving, I will blip the throttle to rev-match and then go into the lower gear as I rarely "pull through" the synchros and like a butter smooth shift. Writing this up is hard BTW, as I do this stuff instinctively and am trying to picture my process but after driving a manual for 36+ years this is how I would describe it. I didn't even try to teach my eldest son to drive a manual and sent him to driving school as how do you describe basic "breathing" to someone since you do it without thinking.

Disclaimer, my 430 is an F1 not manual, just using my "Porsche" and previous Lambo ownership. Yes I drove a Diablo as a daily driver in the 90's, I just didn't drive daily as I lived in NYC & then New Jersey.

 

Yes, that was what I was coming to. It's a case of slip the clutch or rev match. I use the latter approach. My previous F430 was a factory manual and I never had any issues with the approach.

OP may have some other vibration/lose component issues but it does sound to me like gear lash.

 

Does the car have a clutch switch?

 

From your description I’m getting memories of the worst manual I ever owned, which was a Jeep JK with 35” tires and OEM gearing. Any lugging at all (which was easy with huge tires/wrong gearing) would result in that gear lash sound. Basically drop a gear because you’re trying to accelerate at too low of a speed in too high of a gear IMO. If that means rev-matching into first or second at pedestrian speeds, that’s ok.

 

But 3rd gear is 3rd gear whether its f1 or manual no? why is it worse now that its gated?

 

Yes, and I would say to hit the left paddle instead. I don’t know why it would be more pronounced in a manual, other than the F1 might drop a gear for you in that situation?