Someone with good 246 GTS knowledge?

Guys, I'm looking to buy a 246GTS, and could use some help.
Before I fly out to look at the car (and hopefully buy it), is there someone here who would take a look at the photos and information I have been give from the seller and point out any issues he sees?
I have never owned one, so I can't scrutinize details like they do on BAT.
It's an unrestored Driver car--just what I want.

I currently have a 308 GTS and a gated 360 Spider and some other British 1960s cars and I like to do my own work.

I really need to TRUST someone to give me advice, and not buy the car out from under me...

 

Post up the pics!

We will gladly tear them apart! Ha!

 

Hire someone knowledgeable to do a PPI.

 

Small bit of advice. Probably the best "barn find" expert on the planet is the King of the Toasted Ponies - Tom Shaughnessey. Tom's MO is simple. He knows the value of the cars he is looking for. If he finds a car, he offers a market price and buys it. He doesn't ask for an inspection. He doesn't hesitate. He knows his stuff and acts accordingly. If you're looking at a old Dino, there is going to be a lot wrong with it. Rust is probably the biggest concern. But if the owner is willing to sell at a reasonable price, I'd recommend buying it. You're probably going to end up upside down anyway, so dive right on in.

Ps I don't know squat about Dinos. But my experience with vintage Ferraris, the mechanicals are the easy part. It is the body pieces that can no longer be found. Good luck!

 

It’s imperative to have an expert set of eyes look at it. In fact I’d have the expert inspect and drive the car before you ever see it. That way the emotion is left out. TS is an expert of sorts in his own right, which I assume the o.p. is not. He typically buys for his own account, as I understand it, not as a representative. Completely different mind set. Also, get as detailed a history as you can from someone like Marcel Massini. It’s well worth the money.

This is bare minimum due diligence in my opinion. With Dino prices where they are anybody would be a fool to do less.

 

It depends on the ask. If it is low enough, parting the car out may cover the cost if the plan goes sideways.

Again, the better you know Tom, the more you understand his MO. He who hesitates... .

 

Where is it at? Post up pictures for a fast rsponse

 

Okay.
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Wow! That's clean looking.

Say, do you have any interest in a Jensen Healey?

 

None of the snapshots are published on the web. Did a Google Image Search just to be sure.
Chairs, no flares. I can see poor gap to trunk lid. Looks like suspension at all 4 corners was just rebuilt for this sale.
It's no show car. But I want a driver.

 

Ugh, I believe I'm talking to a scammer

 

Good job you rumbled the B&^%$ds

As the old saying goes "If its to good to be true, it normally is"

Tony

 

Hire someone to do a full PPI! Don't skimp!

 

Sorry to read, but hopefully you dodged a bullet without having invested/wasted too much time or money on this.


As a side note, did anyone noticed the somewhat disturbing amount and severity of dents on the oval, thin wall, main frame tubes likely caused by inappropriate lifting and/or jack stand supporting methods*, especially noticeable in 3rd image in post #9 and couple of big ones on the right tube where the diagonal tube meets it in the 3rd image in post #10 ?
These appear surprisingly common in Daytonas too and probably in many other models, but I’ve often wondered at what point the amount and severity of these dents start affecting the structural strength integrity of these thin wall tubes and the frames in general.

* I’ve always thought these kinds of lifting/supporting methods are performed by people who either don’t understand the construction/structure of these frames or just don’t care.

 

Whether in marketing/sales pictures/videos or at show fields, whenever in the past I’ve seen evidence of similar mishandling, I’ve also wondered what other abuse has the poor car been subjected to by individuals resorting to methods causing this kind of damage, not to mention seeing it on cars claimed to have been “completely/fully restored” (I mean, if something this obvious was overlooked ... )

 

Possibly the wrong approach to buying a Dino, there is no such thing as a drivers car,thats possibly a cue for a cheap car, they are great cars to drive... but

2 types of dino exist, a good one and a bad one. Good ones range from fully restored to well looked after cars that will cost you more but worth it. Bad / cheap ones will cost you $$$ as you are taking on years of neglect.

 

Notice also conspicuously absent are any photos with the car's serial #, or any other identifying numbers, motor, etc.

You're right, scam for sure.

D

 

I disagree somewhat.

First, I believe any Dino (or any other vintage car*) is or can be considered as “a driver’s car” if all the mechanicals are well sorted and dependable.

Just because a Dino (or any other vintage car) is claimed/presented & priced as a “well looked after” low mileage, preservation survivor or “fully restored” (whatever the F that means ?), doesn’t mean it is such or a good example one can depend/rely on to enjoy/use, ie. drive, as it was originally intended (for example, in a case of Dino or any other Grand Touring car, as a long distance, leisure travel transportation).

I’ve always found it rather "funny"(?) to hear/read/see so-called “experts”(?) commenting here and/or elsewhere about vintage cars (Dinos and other vintage Ferraris included) for sale, in online & print media photos or show fields and pointing out issues like incorrect door jamb light trim, hose clamps & screwdrivers in toolkits or sharing their objections/opinions about color choices in interiors, paint jobs, etc while being seemingly oblivious to much bigger and often glaring/obvious mechanical/technical concerns present in same imagery/subject, like my aforementioned chassis tube “abuse”, etc.

So unless a buyer/new owner has means & willingness to accept and deal with any & all eventualities that can and will come along when buying any decades old used car, regardless of its perceived/presented condition, this ^^ is were contracting a PPI with someone who has firsthand experience with all aspects of (vintage) cars, ability to understand its overall condition and in-depth quality of any performed repairs or restoration**, including mechanical and technical, not just what’s promoted in sales photos or videos, becomes imperative.

If I was a gambling man, I’d bet one could find countless examples just in Dino & Vintage sections of this forum alone in which individuals have purchased a car via auction or privately, proclaiming of having found their "lifelong dream car" in “perfect condition”, only to discover/realize soon after it really didn’t turn out to be such or even close and eventually they just stop posting/sharing information and often get rid of it quietly.

In 4+ decades nearly full-time pre-occupation with this hobby (& profession) of vintage cars, I could fill an encyclopedia with similar stories I’ve personally witnessed or heard first-hand recounts of and can say they're far more common than those with happy/pleasant outcome (Most people just can't/won't publicly admit of having made a serious misjudgment/-take).

* I have bought 25+ year old vintage cars for proverbial pocket change and soon after just performing basic services & replacing tires, taken them for a few thousand mile road trips without any major worries (yes, some have provided various roadside problems, etc but that's what makes the road trips to even more memorable adventures).
Heck, one of these cars (30 y.o. rarity I paid less than $5K for), upon arrival to its destination several thousand miles later, received an unexpected invitation to a national show and without more prep than good cleaning before the event, ended up receiving the top award.
So yeah, they can all be drivers, but it's mainly up to the owners attitude/mindset and ability/willingness to accept them as such, instead of becoming worried about every little nick, scratch or sign of life/wear and can seen as someone how is owned by the car, not the other way around.
I've always said if a person really wants to impress serious (vintage) car guys, he/she should tell us things how much they actually drive/use their car, i.e. how many miles they've added since the acquisition or restoration, how often they take it out for extended (100+ mile ?) leisure drives or in case of race cars, to the track, etc but if it's only minuscule, like short drives to local C & C's or show events, perhaps they shouldn't bother as that's what any poser with some extra money to spend on even a not-so-well-sorted car(s) can easily do.

** For example, I've always believed if a PPI "inspector" is unable to assess the overall quality of a paint & body work, be it full re-paint or panel/spot repair, without a one of those "Paint Gauge/- Meter" gadgets, it's probably a sign he/she may not be the right person for the inspection in the first place.

 

well said Tony. a good car doesnt necessarily mean a perfect car.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience/s with all and dont disagree with anything you say more or less. However a car that has been neglected, mechanically and body, is more likely to be sold cheap for other unsuspecting buyers to put right and moreover shows up the previous owners attitude. For me the killer slogan is "great drivers car" what they actually mean is I have neglected the car in my ownership and now you will have to put it right. Same for "low mileage from new" another warning sign of possible neglect.

I've seen people buy what they thought were good cars, even with PPI inspections, from reputable dealers only to find them wanting in many areas.

Caveat emptor

Tony
PS, I'll continue to comment on cars if people ask for an opinion.

 

i’ve found that cars with multiple owners are in better condition than those from a long term ownership.

 

Tony, I wholeheartedly agree with above but wish to add (again and merely for the sake of possible future/other readers of this thread) that just because a car, be it a Dino, Duesenberg or MGB, etc for sale is presented as “completely/fully restored” and may appear all nice’n’shiny with freshly done exterior/interior doesn’t mean it’s well done, sorted or even close to ready for driving enjoyments.
Vast majority of people involved with vintage cars of all stripes generally tend to focus mainly on appearance while commonly and more often than not ignoring mechanical/technical, i.e. practical usability aspects.
This is even more common if/when cars are being “restored” with plans to sell them promptly/soon after it’s finished which again, more often than not leads to any and all possible attempts to “save money” (for better profitability), i.e. skimping on many details/featuresl not be easily detectable at auction type sales or during inexperienced/superficial visual inspections, including viewing online images, etc.

P.S. I wasn’t advocating that anyone should stop sharing their “opinions”.
I just mentioned finding it funny and some times even disheartening when comments about specific car(s) focus on rather superficial, minor details rather than what I would consider important concerns or issues often present, but I assume that’s what these internet forums are mostly good for and hope that those reading them are able to differentiate/take/understand them for what they’re worth.

 

Well, other than no snapshots on the web and apparently no chassis, serial numbers shown, what specifically caused you to believe you are (or were) being scammed? Did the seller refuse a request to allow you to send someone, even a "non-Dino expert" to look at it? If you get the serial number/chassis number, post it and I am pretty sure we can do a pretty quick check on it. And, if you share the location privately with someone here in the Dino section of FCHAT and get them to take a look-see, I don't think anyone who regularly posts here would dare to interfere with your transaction because you could easily call them out here on FCHAT and that individual would likely get pummeled here.

Mark