812 Replacement Rumors

The answer is- it can be tremendous. I remember going from PS2 to MPSS to MPS4S. Each a tremendous improvement. The Corsa that were on my old Scud have noting in common to what was on my TDF. And the Cup2R are better still (for sporty driving, would probably trust the Corsas more in the rain vs Cup2R). The newer tires so much better. When people say they cant imagine cars getting more powerful- and then cars do- why is that possible- and why can people not imagine it. Surely most people have decent imaginations. It's that they do not know about the improvements in electronics, suspension, tires, and also power. I remember when people thought about 250hp was supercar level. And today....???

As has been said/ speculated/ the new car will be both more comfortable to cruise and also hit higher performance levels. In this case it will probably be more down to improvement in suspension technology- I am speculating they could use the suspension from the PS, or something like it. But when the next gen tires become available, you will see these cars drive even better. And there is always a next gen.

 

Very helpful and very interesting, thanks @Caeruleus11.

I've swapped brands (Pirelli to Michelin) and category a couple times, but I think my experience with new generation tires has always been accompanied with a new (and almost always faster) car. So it becomes difficult to distinguish what's car and what's tire. I guess I've been giving the cars too much of the credit.

Your point about how we've been able to handle more and more power is very persuasive.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't want it on my 812, but works on the mid engine cars. And who knows if this is anything close to what was mentioned earlier.

 

This is going to be my last post on this as some people simply do not read what I write

I responded to a post saying the F167 will be faster than the LaF around Fiorano. I said the LaF will be much faster in similar quality tyres. Another fellow Fchat member asked if I implied the SF90 is also slower than a LaF. No idea why, as I was not speaking about the SF90. In any case I replied that the LaF will indeed be quicker on a similar tyre than the SF90 as it is quite a bit lighter

Asking me how I know is a little strange as I already mentioned I own both cars. I should know. I have no special information other than that available to someone who owns the cars and can weigh them any day

I have not compared the LaF to a SF90XX as mine hasn’t arrived yet. When it does I will let you know

Hope this is clear now




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Yes that is 100% correct. Very track-dependent though. Good point sir




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I think 95% of owners get confused - performance on optimal day vs variable temps and conditions.
These car are too comfy at high speed - not sure it's a good thing.

 

Still around the lap time record set by the SF90 XX Stradale in Fiorano, several respected members of FChat have already mentioned here the importance of the tyres on achieving that lap time..
In the world of racing, starting with Formula 1, one way lap times are improved is after trying different tyres, pressures, etc. and by analyzing the g-force loading generated during a lap. The higher the lateral g figures through the corners, the higher the traction available through the tyres. On accelerating out of corners and braking into a corner they also look at longitudinal g force figures. The better the figures the quicker the car exits out of a corner or brakes into a corner. On the straight it's just drag and power but on corners, slow ones are influenced more by mechanical grip, fast ones by aero grip.
This laborious measurements and experimentation work has certainly been carried out for a long time before Ferrari even attempted the 1'17.31 achieved by the SF 90XX Stradale.

 

Does this mean we are expecting the 167 to have tires? And if so, will they be a new tire? Michelin or Pirelli? Or will Goodyear make another splash?


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I responded to a post saying the F167 will be faster than the LaF around Fiorano. I said the LaF will be much faster in similar quality tyres. Another fellow Fchat member asked if I implied the SF90 is also slower than a LaF. No idea why, as I was not speaking about the SF90. In any case I replied that the LaF will indeed be quicker on a similar tyre than the SF90 as it is quite a bit lighter

Asking me how I know is a little strange as I already mentioned I own both cars. I should know. I have no special information other than that available to someone who owns the cars and can weigh them any day

I have not compared the LaF to a SF90XX as mine hasn’t arrived yet. When it does I will let you know

Hope this is clear now

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Ok.
Two SF90 / AF add different tires carbon wheels - so who knows.
Believe I asked how you stated 15% heavier - SF90 vs LaF -
XX more power aero more efficient - doubt that doesn't equate to faster than LaF per Ferrari XX is 2.4 seconds faster.
Never did I or Day355 mention SF90 just XX - Day355 went on to claim Ferrari cheated add Chris Harris etc with no proof.
I don't think Ferrari would post 2.4 seconds faster out of revenge to LaF.

 

Could we please have a different thread on all these tyre comparisons etc. This thread used to be about the upcoming F167 and has morphed into a discussion where people are fixed in their positions on tyres, weight etc. I don't know about you but personally I really don't care if this car or that is fractionally faster or slower. I'm not a good enough driver to use any of the cars full capabilities - what I do appreciate is lighter, smaller and more agile cars. In the case of the F167 - I assume it's a grand tourer which also has the capability to provide lots of excitement. If it's a little smaller than the 812 and has a pleasing interior and exterior for me then job done. A marginal increase in HP is meaningless other than perhaps to compensate for additional weight if it has the new suspension.

 

I am looking forward for a lap comparison between the two. I hope that LF than the SF90(sorry but I just am not fond of it) is faster lol. A bit off topic, I am interested on how will the Enzo and its rival, Carrera GT will handle using modern tyres. Will the handling be more manageable and will they be faster than the likes of their more modern entry level super/sports cars 458 Speciale or 991 GT3?

 

Ok.
Two SF90 / AF add different tires carbon wheels - so who knows.
Believe I asked how you stated 15% heavier - SF90 vs LaF -
XX more power aero more efficient - doubt that doesn't equate to faster than LaF per Ferrari XX is 2.4 seconds faster.
Never did I or Day355 mention SF90 just XX - Day355 went on to claim Ferrari cheated add Chris Harris etc with no proof.
I don't think Ferrari would post 2.4 seconds faster out of revenge to LaF.[/QUOTE]


If you want to to continue the LF vs SF90 lap times on modern tyres discussion, better make a different thread. I believe most future F167 owners will care more about its GT characteristics more than on how fast can it go around Fiorano, Silverstone, Mugello, Spa Francorchamps or Nordschleife. This thread needs to go back to the original agenda which is the new Ferrari GT (F167).

 

For sure yes. Many don't realize the importance of chassis and suspension. When new tech tires are mounted to such an improvement great things happen. Next level when better tires are mated to a better suspension and chassis.

 

I agree, if it’s smaller than the 812 then that will be a hugely positive step, just like the F12 reset the size and agility parameters after the 599 (and 296 after the F8).

Anyone care to speculate on what the F167 will be called? I’m going with my earlier prediction of 540MM.

 

why 540

 

Considering that there is a direct relationship between the Dry weight/Power ratio of the models shown in the table below and the lap times achieved in Fiorano, it may be possible to extrapolate an approximate lap time for the F167 based on some assumptions.
If the F167 will have a power of 850 cv and its dry weight will be 1487 kg, equivalent to that of the 812 C, it is likely that the lap time in Fiorano will be between that of the 812 C and that of the SF 90 Stradale, somewhere in the region of 1' 19.50. However, if the dry weight of the F167 will be identical to that of the 812 SF, with a power of 850 cv, it seems to me that it will be very difficult to surpass the 812 C Fiorano lap time.
Something that seems clear to me no matter what happens and for various reasons, is that the F167 won't be able to surpass the SF 90 Stradale Fiorano's lap time.


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Cylinder capacity 540cc x 12 = 6.5 litre engine

 

540 sounds dated given the 550/575 and then the 599... it got to be really special its the last Front engine NA V12 Model

 

I am always impressed by the data you are gathering... Thanks for sharing this with us in different threads.

 

The 296 has set a precedent for reverting back to lower numbers, so its possible.

 

Dino 206 2l V6 and Dino 246 2.4L v6 the Ferrari 296 is a 2.9L V6. so no reverting back

IF it did the f167 should be 650 as 6512 doesn't work

 

The analysis is really interesting, IMHO; there's no chance new model will weight 1487 kg dry, and no chance downforce will be more than 812C, this is not vS model, It would be already good result a Fiorano lap time of 1.21 or 1.20.5, with some electonics magic, but since it is not hybrid and not AWD, coming close to 2019 SF90 stradale is not even in consideration

 

the official lap of the F167 has been stated to be 1:19.5 no put going on about anything like tries, weight etc till the official spec are reveled

 

I like the thinking behind using the cylinder capacity- 540 (it’s a little more than that but thats how it rounds). MM references SF’s first race.

What about a name that references the first car from modern Ferrari- the 125 S? How about 125 GTB and GTS or something like 125 Finale


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I think it will be difficult for them to have a flagship that starts with a lower number than the mid-range (296). There's always been some sort of numerical hierarchy within the contemporary range eg 355/550, 360/575, 430/599.