812 Replacement Rumors

Do you root for a professional sports team that you weren't asked to play on?

 

Looks aside, the tech and natural V12 will be the selling points. Ferrari is definitely flipping the script in the background!

 

Not the same thing at all, I don't root for corporations.

Plus I'm a Mets and Jets fan, that's more about self abuse ... that'd be like rooting for Yugo.

 

Do you have to be a connoisseur to buy that which you enjoy?

Order in and going to view the car at the factory end of this month! I'm all aboard, just don't know if Coupe or Spider yet.

 

And, by the way, why do that car is in need of rear spoilers left and right from 60 km/h onwards?
My Daytona drives pretty well up to 250 km/h without…

 

Totally disagree - it's about a purveyor of your hobby. You don't think sports teams are businesses? The sports dynasties are what they are because they are successful corporations. The latest Ferrari is as much of interest to us as the 1st draft pick is for football fanatics.

Also, sorry to hear about the masochism.

Definitely not - full agreement there. I'm surely not a somm, but I love good wine!

But not being objective about the decline of great story is not wrong either. If instead of this car, Ferrari had trimmed 800 pounds, kept the epic V12 but perhaps detuned (see the next component), offered an optional gated manual, and built a truly modern Daytona design-wise, there would be far more celebration. With the resources they have, surely that could be accomplished while satisfying safety and emissions regulations. And it would still do 0-60 in 3 seconds. As a Ferrari V12 enthusiast, this car simply doesn't feel like another milestone achievement to me. If, on the other hand, they rolled out the car I just dreamt up, I'd over the moon with the car and the company maintaining the story.

 

In all fairness, the exact same can be said of the F12 and 812. Neither of those are like your description at all. So I see no reason for this to be different. Ultimately, it's a super tourer. I don't want any of that in my touring car, I want a big, heavy, powerful, striking bruiser - that can still handle when I do desire. I definitely don't want a manual. I definitely don't want it lacking amenities, sound deadening, etc to make weight. I agree with your overall "image" - I just don't think this is the lineage for it. Perhaps a different car, an SP project or something. But this is just a continuation of the 812, which is very much big, heavy, overpowered, and flappy paddled. I see no reason for this to be a decline of a great story, given funnily enough a 365 GTB/4 is probably circa 1500-1600kg, around the same as this car.

 

Well I (and many others here) think the F12 and 812 were the beginning of the end design-wise, size-wise, and tech-wise. But this one really moves over the line in all three dimensions, in my opinion. It also sounds to me like you should be driving a Continental GT, which is exactly what you described... you'll also get to invest a ton of left over money too!

 

24 hours ago I was quite certain I was getting one. Now that I've seen photos, I'm not so sure. That doesn't mean it's bad, just that some of the choices aren't for me. That's OK, I'm just one person. And I'm still very, very happy they're making this car!

 

What on earth are you talking about?
The analogy for a sport team is not Ferrari manufacturing, at best it would be the Ferrari motorsports division.
I root for a sports team not the business of the owner ... it's let's go Mets not let's go hedge fund! lol
and yes I realize the team is a business too, but the rooting isn't for the business, I don't care if the owner makes or loses money. what exactly are you rooting for? Giuseppe at the assembly line to torque well today the same way you root for a player to drive a run in?

Just a comically false analogy.

Anyhoot, I'm not trying to deprive anyone of their opinion, I can't turn off the internet so carry on as you were as I know you will ... I'm just merely pointing out it's moot unless they have the option to buy the car.
At least as moot as my opinion is on what I feel on the subject on 100ft yachts and don't go to that forum to discuss it, that is assuming I had the inclination to formulate one.

It's called legitimacy, anyone can say anything, but did you say yes or no to an allocation and I'd be interested in knowing why either way.

 

as I said, I like the car a lot. But this one got me thinking. I guess I would have to see both in metal to decide.

 

Come on man - it's totally analogous. You don't think assembling a team of talent to perform as you designed it is similar to engineering a machine? There are differences, of course. But the structure is absolutely similar and the fans are only looking at the final product.

But isn't the decision to pursue an allocation (or not) part of the logic too? Not simply recanting how you said "yes" or "no" in the showroom after the salesman released doves and poured champagne after announcing you've been selected (as long as you spec $150K+ in carbon and buy the CPO Portofino in the meantime).

Also... you're on Ferrarichat. The entire platform is literally built for enthusiasts to connect and opine...

 

Yes, I am already offered the allocation for both coupe and spyder. The allocation for spyder will come to the store next month. And I really don't think I can bang the super model in your analogy. Plus are you saying those who are not offered the allocation should not opine on the replacement? Come on man, that's elitist.

 

+1

 

Ok but painting that little part next to the headlights black doesn't look better

 

I do think there's a parallel between sports teams and Ferrari. And not just the motorsports teams, but everything Ferrari represents. Ferrari and the Mets both have cultural significance. That's why (unlike for, say, Kia) Ferrari's cars do and should matter to all its fans, not just to owners like you and me.

Ferrari means something to constituencies beyond its shareholders and its clients. If I was the company's sole owner, I like to think that I would care a lot about keeping Ferrari true to what it represents, even if that was in conflict with profits and client preferences.

Idealistic, I know.

Fortunately, I don't see the doom that others forecast. Do I like every decision post-IPO? No. Do I want every car in the lineup today? No. But they're still building terrific cars that I believe are consistent with what Ferrari stands for. Including this one.

Also, LFGM.

 

If I knew how to use Photoshop myself...

 

We're really drifting away for the topic. But to quickly address the above. You are somewhat mistaken here too. I have never purchased a new Ferrari before my 812 GTS. I had a 458 Spider that I purchased from another dealer than the one that gave me the 812 GTS allocation. Do most dealers ask people to buy cars they don't want to get the cars they do want by pretending FNA requires it? Sure. But it isn't always that way, it just depends ion the relationship you forge with that dealer, and if they do try to force you then you can always say no and you can also say that's the reason why you didn't say yes to the 12C cause your dealer tried to blackmail you into one. That is a legitimate reason, as is the opinion that led you to want the car and the reason that you didn't take it despite the fact that you wanted it. All of it was a true and realistic endeavor thus the opinions carry weight.

It's all good ... without opinions there are no forums, me pointing out that some carry more weight than others isn't particularly insightful or groundbreaking tbh.

 

That is not what I said.

Everyone is so touchy today.

 

Heavy is relative my friend. A Conti is 2.2 tonnes. This is literally 600kg lighter. For the roads I do, it's all mountain driving. There's a reason I have a Pista and an 812. Pista for when I go alone, 812 for when my other half comes with me and she "needs" the luggage space. Both cars very enjoyable in different ways for me.

 

Yeah! Most of you peasants can’t afford to have an opinion! Get back in your carola.

 

Flavio Manzioni wants to go down in history as the man who created Ferrari's new design image. If you have any doubts, just read his recent interview “the 12 Cilindri inaugurates a new stylistic season for Ferrari, it radically changes its codes,”
Manzoni doesn't stop there and reveals himself as wanting to be the Malcolm Sayer of the 21st century. “One of the salient features of the 12 Cilindri is the line that runs along the entire volume of the car, which was conceived as a fuselage inspired by aeronautical and futuristic, almost sci-fi principles. Nothing is left to chance, every detail is taken care of to a maniacal level and the muscles are treated rigorously,”
But few people have heard of Malcolm Sayer who was a fine and imaginative mathematician and expert in aerodynamics who worked during and immediately after World War II in the aircraft industry for de Havilland and the Bristol Airplane Company.

The aesthetic result of Manzoni's use of aeronautical design is at the antipodes of Sayer's. Manzoni use of it in the 12 Cilindri resulted in a design not at all impressive suffering from a certain degree of incoherence . Sayer outstanding achievements on the other hand, include the world famous E-Type Jaguar, one of the most beautiful and alluring cars, and the D-Type racer, a stunning machine that won Le Mans 24-hour race three times in a row.

Flavio Manzoni sayd that through the 12 Cilindri he has radically changed Ferrari stylistic codes. Curiously he applied some of the codes created more than 50 years ago by Pininfarina to the front and side lines of the 12 C. IMMO the result couldn't be worse, a mix of styles that border on the grotesque specially when we observe the rear of the 12 C.

After this first impression of the 12 C I can't help but agree with what Rosario Scelsi wrote “The impression is that Flavio Manzoni has impulses of great genius, but that he is unable to always match them perfectly, as Pininfarina did. In the cars designed by him, the details are impeccable, but the overall view is sometimes disturbed by something, by a discordant note. If with Pininfarina there were no doubts about the fact that the next "red" would immediately enter the heart for its style, with Manzoni there is great anxiety every time and nothing can be taken for granted.”

Looking at the direction into which Manzoni is taking Ferrari's design the only thing I can say is that with each passing day I like my F12 more and more.

 

Actually, you saying that driving a Corolla is an insult is the elitist statement.

I said nothing of the sort.

 

Can't speak about the 365, but my E-Type is scary at those speeds (basically above 100 mph). You might find the following article interesting: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a46355319/lamborghini-miura-wind-tunnel-supercar-aerodynamics/

That's impossible. You would have needed Aston Valkyrie levels of engineering and price.

Last time Ferrari offered a manual, we saw the uptake...

The F12/812 are smaller than the preceding 599. Much quicker and better to drive too. I loved the power of the 599, but it was a blunt beast compared to its sportier successors.

 

As a manufacturer Ferrari rightfully only cares about the opinions of those whose opinions carry weight and are able to express those opinions by either buy or no buy.