812 Replacement Rumors

(...)
"Really, and not meaning any harm, Manzoni should leave the corporation."

Sure, but unfortunately, I think it is too late. The F167 and F250 are done. They were probably the last important designs for ICE Ferraris.

 

Seriously?

 

I do not know how Ferrari Deign Studio is run. If all the shapes come from the very top or if things are shared in a tram or group approach.

Design is a creative process And great designs cant be summoned up for each and every attempt.

The original reason for Ferrari's departure from Pininfarina was a need for faster turn around time and the ability to have more "edits" and modifations to the design before it was 'locked'

Personally I think this has been a key step in the evolution of Ferrari.

The new models need to please an audience who will pay the premiums. So the designs need to find that audience; young wealthy, middle age wealthy, and then all the rest of Ferrari lovers.

Not an easytask

BTW I love the new car

 

It has never been more true:

 

Flavio Manzoni is a great artist. If you don't appreciate cars, that's your problem. Your tastes aren't mine, and thankfully so. Respect the Ferrari design team and calm down.

 

The one at the top is actually the best design in my eyes, it's a shame the final version was not exactly this

Sent from my SM-S9180 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

I prefer your much sharper wrap-around body line

 

Respect is a two-way street. Manzoni's "over my dead body" comment eroded a lot of my goodwill.

Clearly subjective. I do really like some of his designs. Others don't. That's normal.

Are you implying that anyone who dislikes Manzoni's designs does not like cars? If so, that's absurd.

Good advice.

 

I don't mind the over my dead body quote. It comes from a passionate, artistic person. We like aspects, dislike others. Don't have to buy the car, as there are many other vehicles to fit the bill. No car is perfect, and i appreciate the chances taken here and the fact that it is not a refresh, but mostly a new idea. One that has grown on me the more I watch about it.

 

Amen but it’s like this here literally every launch and usually from the same people. For example it was fun for me to read the SP3 forum. It went from “this car is an abomination, fire Manzoni” to “this is the most epic and gorgeous Ferrari in the last 30 years”.

It’s the same loud people that need the attention.

Kinda like that one ex that has to tell you so often she’s over you that it becomes painfully obvious she isn’t. I mean if you’re so over Ferrari then why can’t you move on? [emoji23]



Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

FIFY

Nothing special. Certainly not looks. Fits in well with his other failed designs.

No wow factor…………”WOW that looks fkn stupid,” is not the wow a Ferrari should evoke.

Yeah, no upgrade at all from the 812 or F12 and a definite 2 steps back from the looks department.

And to think I was researching historical colors and heritage leather for that dog……

How ironic- 20 years ago I passed on the 575 and bought a 360 Spider & Vanquish instead. Deja vu all over again.

Thanks Centro Stile. Not one Ferrari I’d buy or even really like for that matter. None.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

In what context did Manzoni say? I couldn't find any reference to it doing a search online.

 

He's an employee, not an independent artist. And he's been given a lot of power - perhaps deservedly so - over a cultural icon. I think his role calls for humility, not ego.

I'm probably not going to buy the car because of the black bits. If I could paint them, I'd probably buy it. They can tell me no, that's their perogative. But I could do without the condescension.

And what other vehicles fit the bill? This is such an important car because it's probably the last of its kind. I'm thrilled for everyone who likes it. I'm rooting for the car. But personally feeling a little lost now...

 

Dude he attacked Manzoni for a reason, and you attacked @Solid State because you disagree with his taste. Lol. How did that make you different from the person you attacked?

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The photos don't allow you to see the curves of the car clearly, they tend to make it flat. I can tell you those who saw it in the metal liked the car. 12 is a "concept", as I told you. You have to think of it as a kind of " Icona ", and it could have been. The configuration is going to be very important and requires careful thought out to deliver its quintescence. You can make history based on the Daytona gr 4, or very modern.
You'll talk about it differently after you've seen it in metal, I'm sure !

 

Just my honest opinion...I think the best way to appreciate this cars design is in black (nero). This color and Daytona seats for me.
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Black hides most details.

 

I hope so Day. I hope so. But I don't think I can get past the black bits.

 

Top Gear article and video. From the article:

"And then you’ve got the way it looks. There’s some challenging, ambitious design going on here – more radical than the 812 or F12 for sure. The dark front ‘mask’ strip evokes the 365 GTB/4 ‘Daytona’ wedge front, and no, you can’t have it body-colour. It’s black only. Design boss Flavio Manzoni says he will allow owners to have it painted ‘over his dead body’."​

I was hoping it was a poor translation. But in the video, Ollie Kew was clear that it was a direct quote.

Anyway, we have all said things more abrasively than we intended. I should give him the benefit of the doubt. I'll get over it.

 

Prepare to be "Flamed"

 

Probably true. And I'm sure this car will grow on a lot of us. I hope so. I hope it grows on me. I can't think of examples now, but I know it's happened to me before.

But it's rare for me, and I can't think of an example from Ferrari. Closest is perhaps the 296 which I liked at first and really love now. I loved the 458, F8, 599, F12, SP1/2, SP3 and the Roma (yes, even the Roma) the moment I saw them, and I still do. I really liked (didn't love) the 488 and 812 and I still do. I was more lukewarm on the SF90, but like it and still do. I don't like SUVs, so I have no opinion on the PS.

This is the first Ferrari launch in recent memory that didn't excite me. Which has left me reeling because this was my first - and probably last - chance to spec a V12 Ferrari myself. And my expectations were high given that I've liked or loved everything Manzoni has done.

I really, really hope it grows on me.

I really, really wish they'd let me paint the black bits.

 

Nothing stopping you from covering the black bits with colored film. I’m going to do that on the black more base on my296

 

Seems to me that every new Ferrari design is met with a certain amount of criticism, and this one is no excpetion. I remember when the Enzo was unveiled and it was widely denounced as ugly and unseemly, the 550 Maranello also copped a fair bit of criticism back in the day, both cars are now seen as classics. I suspect the reaction to the dodici cilindri we are seing is a mix of trolls who hate all things Ferrari and the lofty standards that Ferrari have set over the years, which brings out the hyper critic in all of us. My impressions of the new car is that it is a bold, and daring new design. I love the blackened area in the rear and the way it augments the flow of the car... not so sure about the section between the head lights though. No doubt it will look best in the flesh as all Ferraris do. I will say this, in the coming years I fully expect people will come around and this car will be seen as another front engined V12 classic.

 

Nice comparison and thanks for the kudos though there are quite a few details I missed—or dismissed as just artifacts of the camo—that I realize are actually there on the real car. And then there’s the pure guess at the kick-up at the back of the door still skirt—actually, seen on a model of 499P proposal—with turned out to be quite appropriate and accurate.

Your sketches really expressed how muscular and aggressive this car could have looked (within its silhouette) and was probably more like what people were expecting while @isot really captured the sleekness and modernity of the actual design with his sketches.

Shout out also to @savio.79 for his sketches and confirming the ‘Daytona crease’ even if this then turned out to be a variation of the actual Daytona swage line. And finally @crinoid for his usual constructive inputs and sketches. So, thumbs up to all—including, of course, the ‘insiders’ for a fun thread.