F355 Market

I actually didn’t go thru the ad much before making that comment. Just pics and vid. Just realized it has gone thru the restoration. I can see hints of life before restoration now.

 

I don't think anyone knows what any of this means. But it does seem to imply that there are people who make decisions about their lives designed to influence some kind of ranking they have with a car dealership. And that strikes me as very, very sad.

 

Knowing a couple of individuals who are on Ferrari's VIP list, I don't think owning a 355 challenge would buy you much influence.

 

Okay, now I'm starting to get the picture. What you say is very true, John. Years ago when my car was with another facility, two capos from FNA came over, in this car (whatever it is), to talk with the facility owners...


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They walked past me like I didn't exist. I hate being treated like that so I went over to them and pointed out my Challenge car which happened to be there that day. I told them the car's history and how I was enjoying it in its current stage of life. As expected, they gave me a blank look and walked away.

Screw 'em!

 

Oh come Barry that’s an F12

 

Is that what it was? I remember it was real ugly looking. But in all fairness I once saw a limited edition F12 in yellow with a black interior with all sorts of black carbon fiber exterior and interior trim. I thought it looked spectacular and wondered how it would be on the track.

 

You think the F12 is ugly?! I think you might need your prescription checked.

F12tdf? Now that’s a BEAST! Best Ferrari of the 21st century in my opinion.

 

I remember when I bought my 308 GTB QV form Bob Sharp. They sold Datsuns and Ferraris. Walked in wearing jeans, a flannel shirt and with hair down to my shoulders. I announced I wanted to buy a car. The salesman walked over and towards the Datsuns and asked what model I was interested in. When I said a 308 his attitude changed, offered me a glass of wine; we sat down and talked. He showed me around the shop with Paul Newman's race cars and introduced me to the head tech. If I walked in to Miller Motors like that I imagine they would ask me to leave.

 

Barry, I’ve got loads of admiration for guys like you and Bill W for tracking your challenge cars as much as you do. Few owners have as much fun. Last year was pretty much a bust for me in terms of timing but the year prior I was happy to have tracked all seven of my challenge cars as well as being able to lend one to a great friend to use on track. There’s no question these are special cars to own and to race and while they’re tremendously rewarding in terms of fun, they are also being looked at more and more for their value - particularly the earlier ones such as 348 and 355s. It’s just part of time passing and having a new breed of collectors looking at “just an old race car” to do events with.

And apologies for my use of terms not everyone is familiar with. “MODIS” is Ferrari’s encompassing computer network that includes every detail of ownership from service through ownership (current and past) details as well as each cars category (street, race, limited edition, supercar, one off, etc). It also has your client score in it which effects everything from events you’re invited to to cars you’re offered or allowed to order. If you wanted a “VS” car (limited special editions) such as a SF90 XX or Daytona SP3 your score has to be quite high as in highest range of VIP score or TOP client scores. I realize many owners aren’t necessarily aware of this system, especially when they’re not as into the new cars as the older ones. But, it doesn’t make the effect of the ranking system any less impactful when it comes to values of cars you may own like challenge cars in this example. Truth be told I wasn’t even aware of how much these cars effected ranking until well after I owned a few in addition to several street cars. A dealer owner and I had been discussing allocation and how some guys couldn’t even get a spider version of a new car due to their “score”. I asked about mine and was taken aback at what it was, and the dealer owner proceeded to explain how the ranking happens. I have continued to buy challenge cars since then because I think they’re great fun and interesting in terms of history of GT racing but there’s absolutely no question owning and using them has also allowed me to get offered cars I wouldn’t otherwise have been offered. The more dealers work to assist their clients building up profiles the more the challenge cars will continue to disappear into collections and go up in value. I don’t care either was as it’s not why I bought them but there’s no denying the effect.

 

I have perfect vision. Maybe it was the puke green color.

Yes, that's what it was; an F12TDF. I really liked that car.

 

Now that 12 Cilindri was just released, plenty of discussion going around regarding which front V12 was ugly and which one wasn’t.

So far, no one has said the 550/575 is ugly.

 

A few years ago I was at a Lime Rock Park event sponsored by Miller Motorcars. One of the older crew members there that day remembered my car when it was was raced by Peter Sachs and supported by Miller. It still looked the same...


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And that's why I like my 550 and F355 Challenge, Ken. I'll be holding onto both of them.

They've both suffered damage on the track and probably aren't worth anything anyway.

 

Thanks, Joe. When I saw you a couple of years ago at Watkins Glen, you hadn't tracked your Challenge cars yet. I'm happy to hear that you managed to track them last year. Seven Challenge cars are happier now.

Will you be at WGI next week?

Barry

 

I think when I saw you at the Glen I hadn’t tracked the 355 yet but the other cars had been out over years prior. I had to check camera roll but the 355 ended up used once in 2022 in Florida for sure.348 too. The rest were Road America and COTA. In any event I’d like our two yellow 355s in some photos this year for sure. Unfortunately my wife’s social schedule ruined the first WGI Ferrari club event for me next week as she signed us up to attend her nephews wedding but I’ll definitely see you later in the summer this year.

 

I literally laughed out loud when the image of the 12 Cindi appeared on my screen…abomination for sure, and I thought the 812 SF was the ugly duckling winner. Dear gawd.

 

The Pininfarina split is certainly showing more and more as of late.

 

That's right, Joe. Now I remember. It was just your F355 Challenge you hadn't tracked yet. We were talking by Bob Coates' trailer.

FCA-ESR will be at Lime Rock Park June 28-29. It's an unmuffled event. The F355 Challenge is made for that track.

I hope you can make it.

Barry

 

I'm sorry i missed this post you made yesterday, but allow me to comment on it today.

I agree with everything you said. You're by no means an "outsider." You understand the Challenge version of the F355 quite well. Yes, the F355 Challenge technology is now three decades old. Credit should be given Ferrari for coming up with the Active Suspension System developed for the F355. The Challenge version kept that system but with Challenge Shocks and in my case, 2200 lb/in front and 900 lb/in rear Challenge springs. For most tracks it was fine but for Sebring's rough tarmac it left much to be desired. It was like riding a pogo stick in segments of that track. The suspension had to be upgraded which I did with Penske two-way adjustable shocks and Hypercoil springs with Eibach helpers. All original parts have gone into storage as well as the OEM exhaust manifolds which were replaced with tubi manifolds. My car can now be tuned for all tracks I go to.

The F355 Challenge can be set up as a street car but it would involve removing most of the Challenge parts that came in the kit and replacing those parts with items found on street cars. At this point it makes more sense buying a street car and enjoying a comfortable and air-conditioned ride.

This 1997 F355 following me through The Esses at Watkins Glen is an example of how well it performed with just the addition of Challenge wheels and slicks...


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There's a BIG difference between buying new Challenge cars and actually using them in official Ferrari events and buying a used 30yr old Challenge car of an online auction. It's also a bit misleading to say anyones profile has a specific score associated with it (other than VIP or top client status the later of which there are only ~500 in the world). It's not like a video game . As you said, it includes your car buying history and your participation in events (Cavalcade, F1, Casa Ferrari, Tailor Made and Atelier, etc.). Ferrari doesn't necessarily used cars what cars you buy (limited and supercar notwithstanding), they care about engagement with the brand and their dealers. They think of themselves as a lifestyle brand and not a car manufacturer. You do have to buy a used car or two for most dealers to put you on their list to order a standard range car these days though. Also, it's become more and more important to actually keep the cars you buy instead of just rotating them in and out. Clients who continue to order everything but don't actually hold onto them aren't always guaranteed to be offered the VS cars now. For instance, many VIP clients who sold their SF90 coupes and didn't have a spider on order weren't allocated an XX even if they purchased every and still own most of VS' previously offered to them.

Not here to argue, just to provide more color.

Anyways, back to lets get back to F355s.

 

Back to the BaT Challenge car .

I retract my statement regarding parking brakes working with the standard F40 brake setup. Car is using F40 calipers, but rotors and hats appear to still be challenge spec. Those hats aren’t designed to accommodate standard 355 parking brake.

BaT car rear brakes vs F40 setup attached.

Thoughts?
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Front windshield has been replaced. It reads “Pilkington” when is should read “Sigla.” Sigla branded windshields have been discontinued for some time. Car’s side windows still read Sigla.


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Driver’s side front fenders is not mounting correctly making the sideskirts appear short. Alignment issues? Passenger side looks to be correct.


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Nevermind. Invoice in 2023 shows windshield replaced.


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I think it just appears like that because they didn't add the black trim paint to the fenders. If you add the black trim paint it looks right.That and camera angle.


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