What would cause the car to run progressively richer? | FerrariChat

What would cause the car to run progressively richer?

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Threeofnine, May 10, 2024.

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  1. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    393
    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
    My 85 QV, US spec, has been dealing with fuel issues for the last couple months. I sent it to my mechanic and he completely rebuilt the fuel distributor, warm up regulator and replaced the fuel injectors as a few were leaking. The fuel system is working like it should now. However, the car still was running poorly and he recommended I changed the plug wires.

    I opted to change the plug wires myself, and I also discovered that the front bank distributor cap was cracked so I replaced both distributor caps and all 8 spark plugs. After that the car ran beautifully for two days. On the 3rd day it was running a little worse but still good but on the 4th day it started running extremely rich again. It’s stalling out and flooding so bad I can’t immediately restart it. The exhaust also smells like gas.

    I am assuming the car is still out of tune so I’m going to send it back to my mechanic to finish that up. However, I am curious as to what could cause the car to run fine but get progressively richer the more it is driven? With the mechanical injection system I don’t understand how that is possible.
     
  2. FamilyCar

    FamilyCar Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2007
    786
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Peter Goodall
    I don;t have a good suggestion on the running rich, but if it smells strongly of gas it could be damaging the catalytic converter if you still have one. They are expensive to replace, so avoiding damage is good. Even if they aren't a requirement where you are, and for an '85 I doubt they are anywhere but maybe California, they do cut down on odor.
     
    Threeofnine likes this.
  3. John Hasty

    John Hasty Rookie

    Jul 16, 2019
    45
    Full Name:
    John H. Hasty
    Try new oxygen sensors...although I did not have a problem of re-starting, that cured a similar problem on my t.
     
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  4. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    393
    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
    I actually have one on order so I am going to change it out. Does the Bosch fuel injection system have the ability to change the mixture? I was under the impression that it had to be 100% manually adjusted.
     
  5. John Hasty

    John Hasty Rookie

    Jul 16, 2019
    45
    Full Name:
    John H. Hasty
    I don't know, but I think it is manual. Mine has Two not One oxygen sensors.
     
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  6. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 28, 2005
    4,163
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Full Name:
    Gordon
    An ignition problem can cause that condition - since the ignition system is set up as two separate 4 cylinder systems (each bank has separate coil, distributor, Digiplex electronics), it is possible to have one ignition system cut out and then the engine will run with only 4 cylinders firing - but it will be way down on power, and the non-firing 4 cylinders are just pumping fuel through the cylinders and out the exhaust...

    One common cause of one bank's ignition cutting out is a failing flywheel sensor - there are 3 sensors on a QV, one specific to each bank, and a common one for the tachometer signal. The sensors can become heat sensitive where they work well when cold, then start cutting out when engine heat builds up.

    Gordon
     
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  7. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    393
    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
    I had actually considered that and it would definitely explain a lot of the symptoms. However, I put spark testers on a plug wire on each bank. It was showing both banks had spark. If one of the flywheel sensors was going bad, wouldn’t one bank not show spark?
     
  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,546
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    After: completely rebuilt the fuel distributor, warm up regulator and replaced the fuel injectors as a few were leaking;
    Send it back to the mechanic. Let him stand behind his work.
     
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  9. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2015
    279
    Winter Park, FL
    Full Name:
    JK Stevens
    Did the mechanic rebuild the fuel distributor or did he send it out. I have been told there are only two shops in the US that do this service. One is in mobile alabama. I think your fuel dist. is still dumping too much fuel into the cylinder. I had a similar thing with my 86' 3.2.
     
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  10. Threeofnine

    Threeofnine Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2020
    393
    Birmingham, AL USA
    Full Name:
    Jarrod Heath
    He sent it off. He also said he only trusts a couple shops to do it right. You’re probably right about too much fuel. The thing I don’t understand is why it ran good for a couple days but got progressively worse the more it was driven. The only thing that makes any sense would be that the spark plugs are progressively getting more fouled.
     
    moysiuan likes this.
  11. Wingnut

    Wingnut Karting

    Feb 11, 2005
    155
    Corolla, NC
    Time for the Italian tune-up, i.e, ROAD TRIP. Works for me and my t.
     
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  12. Wingnut

    Wingnut Karting

    Feb 11, 2005
    155
    Corolla, NC
    Run up I 65 to Nashville, then I 40 to Memphis, then US 78 back home.
     
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  13. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    4,183
    Canada
    Since the car ran better after replacing the cracked cap, that might be a clue. Perhaps a plug wire is not seated correctly in the cap (new reproduction caps sometimes have the wire hole not being deep enough for the brass pin to pierce properly the wire, you have to carefully drill the hole a bit deeeper), or the carbon button/spring is stuck.
     
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  14. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,470
    Switzerland
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    Urs STEMMLER
    It's not really "mechanical", more electrical via the fuel pressure from the pump and the fuel quantity is air mass regulated (via, I admit, a mechanical link).
     
  15. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    Absolutely yes; rich for cold start, lean for partial load conditions and WOT enriching (the 2 air hoses from the plenum to the WUR, plus engine heat). It's all handled by WUR and uses excess fuel pressure and quantity to control the FD. Additionally, the AAV and cold start injector helps cold start plus overcoming higher internal resistance with a cold engine.
     
  16. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,470
    Switzerland
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    Urs STEMMLER
    Besides ignition, you could have a failing thermo-time switch controlling the cold start injector, which would leak fuel. Disconnect it and see if it changes anything.
     

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