Will the 12 Cilindri really be the last of a long line of Ferrari V12 masterpieces?

Aston did "nothing", it's the MB AMG engine from the Pagani Utopia, slightly de-tuned, remember, MB owns more than 11% of AM...and AM makes no claim of the engine's origin. But, when you compare the output is the so clear, and, the fact that AM did not indicate the displacement size, even more telling (they are trying to 'hide' where that engine is from, not the DB11, that's for certain), anyway, it's just the engine AMG developed for the Utopia, de-tuned..

 

Aston Martin speaks about a redesign of their V12 engine, not a totally unrelated (AMG) unit.

"Hardware highlights of the new V12 engine include a strengthened cylinder block and conrods, redesigned cylinder heads incorporating reprofiled camshafts, plus new intake and exhaust ports. Repositioned spark plugs and new higher flowrate fuel injectors deliver optimised combustion for class leading performance and efficiency gains. In addition, new higher speed, reduced inertia turbochargers deliver increased performance and throttle response."
https://www.astonmartin.com/en/our-world/news/2024/5/1/the-dawn-of-a-new-v12-era

 

There will be no appreciable difference between the EVs of now and the EVs of 5 years from now. They will still be severely limiting when it comes to cost, time to refuel and probably range.

Demand for EVs is already falling off a cliff, and I really don't think there's a lot of crossover between Ferrari V12 GT customers and people who really want to own an EV. I think calling for the end of ICE and V12s is extremely premature.

 

This is not true, the two engines share nothing, the AM twin turbo V12 is a heavily reworked version of the prior NA V12 as far as I know - but many here will be surprised, I think, by what this engine is capable of in the upcoming Vanquish. If AM can figure out a way, it is, in my opinion, shameful if Ferrari can't.

 

"This is not true" based on what? The AM twin turbo, is not a rework of the DB11 engine with 608 PS and 700nm, if it were, AM would proclaim that in their press release, instead their press release is absolutely silent and it does not even mention the displacement.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/149629436/

See for yourself:
https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/our-world/news/2024/5/1/the-dawn-of-a-new-v12-era

Well, once more is known I am confident in my assessment.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/149629363/

If you look at the stats of the Pagani Utopia you will find the "new" AM engine (which AM itself does not assign any lineage) is nearly identical, just a little de-tuned.
AMG V12 in the Utopia: 864 bhp & 1100 Nm torque, this "new" Aston Martin engine output of 823 bhp and 1,000Nm

 

Speculation: Because that AMG engine was developed for Pagani who is a multi-million dollar limited production car, so Pagani is ok with sharing that engine however they want to be "performance protected" by having the top version of that engine for their own production...seems pretty logical to me...

Another speculation is so that AM has a "reserve" and will eventually "increase" the power to match what the Utopia is using for a AM future model, sort of like what Ferrari does, incremental increasing...the very reason why (I, again, speculate) the Purosangue power is "low" (for a recent Ferrari V12), plenty of room to move it up for future "high performance" versions...

 

One down, one to go- SF dodged a bullet (not really wasn’t gonna get rid of it anyway). Vanquish II is now on the proverbial “hot seat.”

Really looking forward to the Vanquish III reveal. Knew for some time the DB 12 was not going to be the flagship & Aston was going to replace the DBS with a front 12 in lieu of the rumored/shelved mid engine Vanquish.

Deja vu all over again……_

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Figure out a way to what? Turbocharge it? Who cares about that. If a V12 doesn't sound good, why would want a V12 in the first place.

 

I don't think the Utopia requires GPFs, so that could be one reason for the power difference.


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Don’t know how reliable this web site is, but came across this today.

https://www.autodrive.com.bd/posts/gianmaria-ferrari-s-v-12-will-breath-naturally?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3qeKDHPzfxCEsIezqy7b35bR43L3_c7pC33Tv-jmBJ_q0YUJ7172xcZPY_aem_Aagpkjju3MCwBlyuQg1Ixpx6WFQnTBMiQqHBrU-fzO4w5O0XVjINXJ4fGFPkAUIIzhBJaLo7k9ngukwRE7pCzfcC


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Similar sentiment echoed over at Robb Report as well.. https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/ferrari-naturally-aspirated-v-1235616415/

 

The Utopia uses what Pagani has been using for a long time now, a very heavily evolved version of the Mercedes M275/279 bitrubo V12. SOHC, 6 liters, 3 valves and two plugs per cylinder. Pagani has done a lot of work in getting the heads, intake/exhaust and turbo/intercooler systems up to spec, as all that is vastly improved from what you'd get in an S65..but other than that, it's the same basic engine. Not to say there's anything wrong with it, it's an incredible unit capable of insane power and torque, and at this point I think there's more Pagain in it than AMG. But it is very old school and missing some of what's expected (and needed, frankly, for regulatory reason) in modern mass production engines.

The Aston engine never had anything to do with MB, it's pretty easy to see that they are vastly different engines. The AM engine is smaller, DOHC, just entirely different. The basic specifications alone tell you that they are two different engines. Not a bolt or dimension shared between them expect perhaps by accident. Not to mention it wouldn't even make sense for AM to spend a ton of money trying to adapt a 20 year old AMG engine in their own special way to their own cars when they are even as we speak putting the 5.2 in the Valour. There is no reason at all to think that they're suddenly throwing that engine out and using any version of the Pagani engine. Their press blurb is very specific about what was done to the engine to improve it, but I feel confident in saying they aren't going to put the much heavier, less efficient, more expensive, ultra-low-volume Pagani engine into anything they build any time soon.

Now if I'm wrong I will completely eat my words, but it makes no sense to me, IMO.

 

There WILL be VS variants of the Cilindri cars. They will not be called Competizione.

 

I hope this is true
But when ? After 3 years of production ?
Anyone know the regulatory timeline?
I assume that V12 engine size may have to shrink due to stricter regulatory restrictions.

 

Probably shown 2 years from now with deliveries starting 3 years from now.

Will use slightly modified version of current engine. Same engine size. Tweaked for 850hp and 10,000 rpm redline. Significant modifications for this VS will focus primarily on body and aerodynamics as most other aspects are already near the edge of development potential.

As usual, new track focused and more artfully aggressive bodywork will be what we all wished for in the readily obtainable regular production car, but the actually good version will only be obtainable by 900 people on the planet.

Ferrari should really design its regular production cars like the VS cars and charge an extra $100k and they would actually sell even more of them and make tons more money for their stakeholders. Then they could make the VS like the SF90 XX with big giant wings and super extreme aero and charge way more and make even more money for their stakeholders while making their fans even happier.

Silly out of touch leadership likes to leave tons of money on the table and alienate most of their customers instead.

 

Most likely will simply be the slightly more powerful Daytona SP3 engine (and no rev limit change), remember there is no one left in Ferrari working on enhancing the V12 engine...no one...and never again (under current leadership)...so, it is pretty easy to predict...

 

I think for what is prospectively the last V12 outside of Icona series, they will hit the magical 850hp and 10,000 rpm as a fitting send off for this legendary engine configuration

“12 Cilindri” as stupid of a name as it is, is also a master stroke of “Saying it without saying it” ie, it’s kind of like ‘The 12 Cylinder’ because it’s the pinnacle and final development of this engine type. Last of its kind. Ferrari didn’t label a car is Tribute to the Ferrari 8 because they intended on making more of them

 

If true then Ferrari as a brand is doomed in the long term..

 

I'm not sure if it spells doom automatically. A piece of their soul will be lost for sure though.

 

I strongly believe Ferrari’s dirigeants are fully aware of this.
They are not so stupid!

 

I don't think Ferrari is doomed, it will be interesting to see how they compete in the EV market when Tech leadership lies elsewhere. Maybe when multiple brands are pumping out high powered EVs, Ferrari will have the secret design sauce that makes their cars more appealing. It won't be easy but if we are headed to EVs that's the space they'll have to play in.

 

EV is no future for Ferrari and luxury brands.
Even Mate Rimac acknowledged this fact !
Otherwise they wouldn’t have agreed on a gorgeous V16 for the Chiron’s replacement..

 

Totally agree. There is simply no " I must have one of those" when it comes to EV's. Like phones only more battery life and more apps - zero appeal other than as a utility. Ferrari might be a great brand with an amazing history but the EV space is not something a luxury brand like Ferrari can differentiate itself in. Again IMO and happy to be proven wrong

 

You won’t proved wrong.
All the marketing efforts they make are useless in the end.