348 - Hard to get into First Gear | FerrariChat

348 Hard to get into First Gear

Discussion in '348/355' started by rob58, Apr 18, 2024.

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  1. rob58

    rob58 Karting

    May 30, 2020
    134
    CT.
    Full Name:
    Robert Orris
    My 1990 348ts is hard to get into 1st. gear at times. Usually after the car is warmed up. At stop signs, ex.. I have to release the clutch slightly, then reengage, and try again. that usually works. Second gear is never an issue even when cold! The car has 19,300 miles. Any thoughts?

    As always, any feedback is very much appreciated.
    Sincerely
     
  2. whyte

    whyte Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2006
    409
    Merritt Island, FL
    Full Name:
    John C
    Based on your description, best guess is slave cylinder "triple seals" or failing master cylinder.

    When the hydraulic triple seals, which hold pressure for the slave cylinder that engages the clutch, begin to fail, the clutch will slowly re-engage, even if you have the pedal down. When you say you have to release and press the clutch again, it sounds like you are re-pressurizing the slave cylinder, which then fully engages the clutch and you can shift into first.

    This would also explain why it is easier in 2nd gear, as you are pressing the clutch more more quickly, so there is not time for hydraulic system "leak" pressure.

    In cases of slave cylinder leaks, you will see fluid start to leak from the rear of the car under the clutch housing. NOTE: The clutch and the brakes on these cars share a reservoir, so if you are losing fluid, make sure this is addressed!

    You can easily test this theory. Find a road without traffic, then get up to about 30 mph or so in second gear, then depress the clutch and just hold it down. The car will coast. While holding it down, blip the throttle a bit every so often. You should be able to "feel" the drag of the clutch on the engine if the clutch is slowly re-engaging with the pedal depressed.

    Another test would be to simply try pumping the clutch three times before shifting into first. It it works better that way, you have your answer.

    Another possibility is that you have air in the clutch/brake line. You can try bleeding the clutch (which is a real party), but if that's the case, you will also need to sort out how air is getting in the line.

    Lesser probabilities: synchro issues in your transmission, misalignment of shifter cables. The cables are a common problem, but they really don't match your description as well as a hydraulic leak does.

    Good luck and let us know!
     
    Chippa likes this.
  3. rob58

    rob58 Karting

    May 30, 2020
    134
    CT.
    Full Name:
    Robert Orris
    Bingo on the Clutch & Brake fluid! On several occasions I had a tablespoon or so leak out the overflow line from the Clutch / Break reservoir. It is a thin green plastic line that vents out in-between the front tires. However, after I checked the level mark in the reservoir it was at the full mark. Maybe over filled? The car is at the shop as we speak having its annual fluid exchange. Motor oil, gear box oil, coolant flush & change, and Clutch & Brake fluid flush and replace! Perhaps this is it?

    Thank you, I appreciate your insight.
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,956
    socal
    Start simple. If last clutch and brake system flush was over 2 years old change fluid and bleed. If less than 2 then bleed clutch. Check position of trans in 2nd gear. Is stick centered in slot nicely? Fluid does make a difference in shift quality. People have favorites here. Then go deeper if the simple things don't fix.
     
    FloridaIsland348 likes this.
  5. rob58

    rob58 Karting

    May 30, 2020
    134
    CT.
    Full Name:
    Robert Orris
    Thank you for your suggestions. I am using Red Line 75/90 gear oil. Is that a favored choice? I will check the stick position in second gear as well.
     
    FloridaIsland348 likes this.
  6. sfcarguy

    sfcarguy Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 9, 2018
    525
    Earth
    Redline 75W-90NS is the correct fluid for transaxles. Their regular 75W-90 contains LSD friction modifiers that are bad for synchros.
     
    FloridaIsland348 likes this.
  7. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,728
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I have a new hill TOB, full AP Racing clutch assembly, new Motul hydraulic fluid, factory Shell Spriax gearbox oil, new triple seals, lubed shift cables, greased shifter box, I have the same issue occasionally. Actually I think my 80s cars had that issue, my Sirocco sure did. But I can get into second when cold pretty easy and never grinds or catches teeth going in or out of gears. When warm it feels like a new car. Before all that it was a dread driving it, not enjoyable at all, now it’s a joy.
     
    FloridaIsland348 likes this.
  8. rob58

    rob58 Karting

    May 30, 2020
    134
    CT.
    Full Name:
    Robert Orris
    Thank you for all the great suggestions. I'll follow up when I get my car back!
     
  9. rob58

    rob58 Karting

    May 30, 2020
    134
    CT.
    Full Name:
    Robert Orris
    Ok my 348ts is back from the shop after it's annual all fluid exchange and inspection. After new gear oil (Redline 75-90) there is no improvement. At stops it can be a challenge getting it into first. This is not all the time, however. Any ideas?
     
  10. User-C3

    User-C3 Karting

    Aug 29, 2018
    240
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Trevor
    Maybe others can chime into this one, but I am noticing a stiffness from the shift shaft that comes out the front cover that the linkage mounts to and does the main shift movements to engage the linkage inside the trans. I'm wondering if this gets tight over time. I was having trouble with initial engagement or moving into any gear for that matter after sitting. Once it was moved and engaged into a gear it would shift fine. It could also be a misalignment of the control fork for 1st and reverse. Do you have any trouble with reverse?
     
  11. rob58

    rob58 Karting

    May 30, 2020
    134
    CT.
    Full Name:
    Robert Orris
    Thank you for your response. Yes, at times reverse needs a few tries to engage! How does one get to adjust the 1st. & Rev. control fork? Sounds complicated.
     
  12. User-C3

    User-C3 Karting

    Aug 29, 2018
    240
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Trevor
    the trans needs to be out and the main front cover removed.
     
  13. rob58

    rob58 Karting

    May 30, 2020
    134
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    Full Name:
    Robert Orris
    Am I right to assume that the motor does not have to be removed to take out the transmission?
     
  14. sfcarguy

    sfcarguy Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 9, 2018
    525
    Earth
    #14 sfcarguy, May 12, 2024
    Last edited: May 12, 2024
    @rob58 Based on everything described, this isn't wholly unusual. Did you check the lever position in the gate in all of the gears as suggested already? A misalignment would be indicative of a shift mechanism issue. If not there's no need to pull the trans. Does first always work if you let the clutch up and then depress it again? @User-C3 is having a very different issue.
     
  15. JasonS

    JasonS Karting

    Sep 5, 2019
    68
    Green, OH
    Full Name:
    Jason Stropki
    Recently my 348 had started to take a firmer push or pull to get into gear. I suspected clutch pressure plate. Took the clutch housing off and sure enough, 1 finger was broke off (like lots of others have experienced too). I'm sure the other ones were weak/worn. It was time for a new clutch. Did a new AP along with all seals and new Hill Eng. throw-out bearing assembly (bearing for old housing on my style is NLA.). Clutch job isn't hard, just had to buy 2 special tools....well worth it.

    Everything smooth as butter now.

    Bleeding the system was a piece of cake with the Motive pressurized fill bottle (https://www.motiveproducts.com/) the cap that came with the bottle screwed right on to the reservoir.
     
  16. rob58

    rob58 Karting

    May 30, 2020
    134
    CT.
    Full Name:
    Robert Orris
    Thank you for all the input. Yes, the shifter lever is in the center of the H pattern and is in the center in all gears. I ease off the clutch a tiny bit and try again. Sometime this works. This usually is while I am at a stop with a bunch of cars behind me watching the Ferrari guy trying to get it in gear. LOL. It will go in to gear if I manhandle it in. Meaning just jam It in. It goes in with no noise or grinding. I feel that one of these days the whole dam shifter lever is just going to bust clean off! Wouldn't that be fun. Any ideas?
    Thank you
    Sincerely
     
  17. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
    5,728
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    Eric
    #17 Ferrarium, May 19, 2024
    Last edited: May 19, 2024
    I go into third or second or both then into first. Rowing gears. The gears are not aligned and moving parts of the transmission have stopped.

    Put it into another gear first then into the intended gear. Engaging another gear will usually move the gears in the transmission enough to be able to mesh. An STI gear box it is NOT.

    sometimes pushing and releasing g the clutch works as well. I just row gears, it becomes second nature.

    This is common btw as gearboxes from 80s at least everyone I have had including German cars, especially as they age.
     
  18. JasonS

    JasonS Karting

    Sep 5, 2019
    68
    Green, OH
    Full Name:
    Jason Stropki
    Same idea as last time- examine your clutch pressure plate. $10 says you'll find a broken finger or 2. The clutch drag is what is making it hard to get into gear. From a stop to 1st is where you will feel it the most.
     
  19. rob58

    rob58 Karting

    May 30, 2020
    134
    CT.
    Full Name:
    Robert Orris
    Thank you for your suggestions, I am going to try that. I appreciate your input. That makes sense. Although it won't be for a couple of weeks as I am recovering from ancle surgery. Thank you,
    Sincerely
     

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