430 - Engine down on power after filling up with gas | FerrariChat

430 Engine down on power after filling up with gas

Discussion in '360/430' started by jerbear27, May 21, 2024.

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  1. jerbear27

    jerbear27 Formula Junior
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    Jun 12, 2022
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    Jeremy
    Been chasing a problem lately. After I fill my car up with gas (always quality 93 Octane), the engine seems down on power. I’m fairly certain I’m not running on only one bank when this happens. No CEL and no other issues. Turning the car on and off doesn’t seem to help. Cutting the battery for an extended period of time fixes it and car is perfect until next fill up. I do not overfill the car and I have zero issues filling up. Set the pump and it goes off when full.

    Im leaning toward the charcoal canister or something along those lines. Thinking it’s the time the car sits vs the battery being disconnected that’s making the difference, like things can dissipate.

    anyone experience this before?

    some background:
    08 F430
    Kline headers
    Kline 100 cell cats
    Kline exhaust
    360Trev tune

    new plugs, fresh oil, newly serviced injectors. This problem was happening prior to the new plugs, oil change and injector service as well.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Sep 13, 2022
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    You sure it's only when you fill up, or is it when you turn your car off, but restart it shortly after? Filling up is usually the only time cars are off for very short periods of time so want to make sure it's isolated to actually putting fuel in versus the car being hot and restarted.

    Probably unrelated, but my wife's Jeep had similar issues. Turned out to be heat soak with the injector rails. Hot exhaust under the injectors would cause the issues, but only if it was started shortly after turning off (like at a gas station). Do you have any heat protection on your headers?
     
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  3. jerbear27

    jerbear27 Formula Junior
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    Good feedback. Yes, heat protection on the headers. Temps are way down from where they were with the stock units.

    I’ve run it and turned it off and then got back in and started it up this past weekend with no issue at all.

    Today, I filled up, drove a few hundred feet and then turned the car off. Sat in a driveway for 15-20 minutes and then started the car back up. On restart, the problem appeared.

    I don’t think it’s heat soak, but I’ll try and grab some more data points as I continue to drive and then fill up
     
  4. AandSC

    AandSC Formula Junior
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    If your charcoal canister hasn’t been replaced I would start there.
     
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  5. jerbear27

    jerbear27 Formula Junior
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    Thanks. It is original and has not been replaced.

    When replacing, seems straight forward. Any additional parts I need while I’m in there?
     
  6. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    since this is a 430, there is a diagnostic pump and check valves that should be inspected in the canister "loop". If the check valves have fuel in them, it could also be a problem.
     
  7. jerbear27

    jerbear27 Formula Junior
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    Thanks Corey. Best way to check? Just unplug the hoses and see what I see?
     
  8. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    I really have to jump in here and ask how a bad charcoal canister or associated components, without setting codes would cause OP issues
     
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  9. jerbear27

    jerbear27 Formula Junior
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    I’m open to other suggestions. I’m grasping I’m sure. I just don’t know why it always happens after refueling…. Any idea is welcome. Always appreciate your input!
     
  10. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    I would take the hoses out and see if fuel comes out. If you take the canister out and it's filled with fuel (i.e. you hear sloshing because the charcoal has turned to slush), that is also an indicator you need a new canister. I'm not sure how you test the diagnostics pump other than a smoke test to see if it's leaking. I know when my mechanic was troubleshooting my car, he did a smoke test and then also showed me the fuel dripping from the check valves when he removed them and the sloshing of liquid fuel/carbon in the canister. Then again he knows I like to see the results of triaging a problem because I'm a geek.
     
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  11. AandSC

    AandSC Formula Junior
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    I dug through my old records and there was a check engine light (major purge control leakage) when my charcoal filter was replaced (prior to my ownership, at about 21.5K miles).
     
  12. jerbear27

    jerbear27 Formula Junior
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    Thanks, Allen. No light from me, just this behavior. Appreciate you looking through your records!
     
  13. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    The Key statement you made is that it works fine after a ECU reset (battery disconnect) ..which leads me to believe it has either fuel rate or timing curve ..

    Questions

    Do you have any diag tool
    Do you recall the events that happened right before the first appearance of issue
    Long shot..did you ask Trev if he has seen this before with his tune ..maybe some parameter /sensor value is sending his logic down a different path code wise (sone kind of safety)

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  14. jerbear27

    jerbear27 Formula Junior
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    Thanks Dominick!

    I have a Launch x431

    I do not recall all the events that lead up to this issue - perhaps it only showed up with the tune?

    Reached out to Trev to see if he has any ideas.

    thanks!
     
  15. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    I responded to your PM

    Basically use the launch data stream to look at the ECU data when car is acting normal vs not ..at different rpms

    Based on the limited info it does sound like a timing issue ..so going back to the tune and Trev is a good starting point

    Your symptoms sound more like when someone has a bad variator..that what leads me.to believe a timing issue
    .but of course you didn't get any codes

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     

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