2024 Monaco GP: Post Race Analysis | Page 2 | FerrariChat

2024 Monaco GP: Post Race Analysis

Discussion in 'F1' started by SS454, May 26, 2024.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,870
    The last thing F1 needs is more strategy. We need tyres and a fuel that can last the whole race, so that it's a proper sprint with no strategy, no saving and no *****-footing.
    I remember the happy time when that existed, and the public never asked for pit stops to spice a GP.
    If need be, arrange the GP in 2 heats, like CanAm did, but don't interrupt the racing!
    Teams rely too much on strategy to overtake, undercut, etc ... when the passing should be done on the track not in the pits. This isn't a Refuelling or a Tyre Changing Competition, it's supposed to be a Drivers Championship !!
    By definition, a F1 car is a sprint car; pit stops belong to endurance races.
     
    TonyL likes this.
  2. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
    2,248
    Full Name:
    Chris S
    So you are saying you want replicas of the 2024 Monaco GP? No thanks

    It's funny how you rolled your eyes at @DeSoto for mentioning back in the day, and here you talk about how F1 back in the day was better.

    In modern racing in virtually any series, it is hard to pass. The days of cars being separated by seconds and half the field failing to finish are long gone. The average driver talent from top to bottom is light years better than it was "back in the day". With all the simulations being done, all the teams know there is 1 optimal way around a track and every driver stays on it. Nascar has fractions of downforce and double the brake distances and they can barely make passes without crashing into each other. I'm onboard with your fantasies of what F1 should be, but that just isn't a reality.

    I would much rather watch a driver push to the maximum for 20 laps ahead of a pitstop, a la Schumacher at Hungary 1998, than watch a driver deliberately slow down by 4 or 5 seconds a lap to save tires and can't be passed.
     
  3. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Veteran

    Jan 21, 2017
    6,051
    France
    #28 LVP488, May 27, 2024
    Last edited: May 27, 2024
    They need to make the cars narrower (or the tracks wider...) The size of the cars is an important factor to prevent overtaking, and no DRS could overcome the lack of space on the track (with smaller cars, you may have acceptable alternative racing lines).
    We saw in the past different tires strategies, because you could have more pit stops to be faster on the track (with softer tires that did not last) - if it's impossible to overtake (no matter how faster you car is), there is no point and everybody has the same strategy, hoping for a pass in the pits in the best case, or just finishing in the qualifying order.
     
    william likes this.
  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,870

    The Monaco circuit is obsolete, there is no doubt about it.
    It can't handle modern racing any more.
    Another one for the museum...
     
    SS454 likes this.
  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    You want to make Monaco fun ??

    Set maximum wheelbase at 96" and maximum weight at 450Kg and (for Monaco only) set car width at 70".

    Cars of the late 1960s were the size a Mazda Miata, now they are the size of a Chevy Suburban.
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,260
    socal
    I sold my 78 308GTS carb car when one day out on a drive I look to my left and the bumper of an F150 was right at my head level. Now even my maranello is looking very small.
     
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  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    I understand the feeling--which is why my sports car had the requirements of crash-worthiness and airbags.
    348 did not make the cut, but F355 did.

    I still prefer the gurgle of a set of Webers over turbine whine of fuel injection
     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,260
    socal
    That's why my 348 was turned into a caged racecar. The track is safer than the streets. It sacrificed itself for me many years ago.
     
  9. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2004
    8,751
    FL, NY, and MA
    Full Name:
    Joe
  10. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    4,232
    Norfolk - UK
    Full Name:
    Tony
    Try sitting in a Dino when 599 & Purosange pulls up alongside either side of you:)
     
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  11. Anthony_Ferrari

    Anthony_Ferrari Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,365
    Sheffield, UK
    Full Name:
    Anthony Currie
    I went to the Monaco Historic this year. The racing on the Sunday was fantastic. The qualifying for modern F1 in Monaco is also a fantastic spectacle - the race not so much.
    I've seen a few suggestions over the weekend for ways to improve the Sunday spectacle in Monaco. being mandated to use all 3 tyre compounds during the race was one suggestion. I'm not so keen on this as it still doesn't resolve the main issue, which is that the cars are too big for the track so overtaking is virtually impossible. I think a radical solution should be sought. Let them qualify in the modern cars, but the race should be in cars that are much smaller - maybe F2 cars or even Porsche SuperCup cars? I'd love to see the modern drivers in cars that have the same dimensions of an early 60's grand prix car - with similar width tyres.

    As a destination and a place to spend the weekend Monaco is amazing and seeing the cars going through the streets is an incredible spectacle, but they need to do something to allow racing on the Sunday. I was very happy to see a boring parade to the finish with a Ferrari in the lead, but I also know that it won't always be a Ferrari in the lead, so the possibility of overtaking (on track) needs adding somehow.
     
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  12. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
    3,046
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    This needs a major re-think.

    How about qualifying in the F! cars and then every body gets in an F3 car for the race?
    I assume these are smaller and narrower.

    Grid positions can be handed out according to qualy in the F1 car.
    Give constructors points for qualifying.

    Give WDC points for the race in the smaller cars.

    F3 is basically a simple spec formula and buying two of them will be affordable for all the teams.
    Grid position should be less important, cars are evenly matched, racing close.
    It could be a lot of fun.

    Give WDC points for the race.
    A good chance for the drives in less competitive teams to have a go at the big boys.
     
    kes7u likes this.
  13. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
    3,046
    London UK
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    Graham

    Funny that both of us return from the historic GP with similar thoughts :)
     
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  14. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    8,281
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    I would just say, bring back the 2004 format with efuel !
    Nothing more nothing less.
     
  15. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,918
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    There has never been passing at Monaco. I do not know where people are thinking this is some new things with these cars. Passing only happens in the pits or due to accidents, which we didn't have due to the lap 1 safety car. The size of the cars are not preventing passes, the tires and track characteristics (other than width) are. The following car can not stay close enough in either of the turns leading to the straights to stay close and attempt a pass at the end, and they need to get rid of the hump after casino so the cars can go two wide there. The tires shouldn't be able to stay in their window at those low speeds or they should bring Monaco special tires that cannot go more than a third of the race, forcing multiple pit stops.
     
    moretti likes this.
  16. Anthony_Ferrari

    Anthony_Ferrari Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,365
    Sheffield, UK
    Full Name:
    Anthony Currie
    I completely agree about the hump near the Tip-Top. I know it's a 'feature' of the track and has been there as long as I can remember, but removing it would improve racing without ruining the track.
    I disagree that there has never been overtaking, although you do have to go back 50+ years to see it. Maybe they should qualify in the current cars and race in go-karts?!

    I know the track has it's haters amongst the fans and the participants, but I would hate to see it dropped as an event. I also wouldn't like to see major changes made to the track. I love seeing modern drivers racing through the same streets that challenged Nuvolari, Clark, Hill, Senna and Schumacher. The track is not the problem. The cars are. They are too big and heavy.
     
    Edward 96GTS likes this.
  17. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2012
    1,138
    UK
    F1 has been very different since Senna arrived (and went). The drivers are much more aggressive at defending than they were, and now that the cars and tracks are 'so' safe, there isn't enough respect in the prospect of a big crash. PER closing the door on MAG being just being one example.

    That coupled with the increase in size and weight of the cars, and the general closeness of performance and driver skills has made Monaco even more of a dinosaur on the F1 calendar.

    So the only solution is to introduce some other artificial overtaking aid specifically for Monaco - maybe a random 'alternative route' section of the track that a computer (not at all influenced by the promoter's wish to generate 'clicks' and 'cash') dictates some drivers must take each lap. Surely it wouldn't be any worse than mandatory tyre changes, DRS, the dodgy stewarding or arbitrary safety car rules that we have already experienced?
     
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  18. Anthony_Ferrari

    Anthony_Ferrari Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,365
    Sheffield, UK
    Full Name:
    Anthony Currie
    I like this idea more than any other solutions I have seen. It feels like an honest way to resolve a problem.
     
  19. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    24,660
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
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    Joe R Gonzales
    Maybe Monaco can build a long curving bridge past Portier and double back. The bridge would be wide enough and 2 DRS zones. This bridge will go over the existing harbor and high enough to clear the yachts.


    My 2 cents.
     
  20. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,180
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    I'd disagree about that. I think there were GREAT races in Monaco in the 70's, 80's and 90s... even in the early 2000's. but today's cars are so huge there is no room that I get. Its not Monaco's fault it is the rule makers.
     
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  21. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Bernie Sprinkler System

    OR

    Reduce size of these fat cars
     
  22. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    more road space to play with in a Dino :)
     
    TonyL likes this.
  23. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Health & Safety Police are making everything FAT.

    Not good for the planet.
     
  24. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,180
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro

    Passing at Monaco was possible, but very difficult. there were really 3 places you could pass normally... st. Devot, going down into lowes, and then again at Tabac.... chicane maybe.... but when the cars can't literally fit side by side ...then its the cars that have become the issue.
     
  25. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,180
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    now a Go Kart race in Monaco that would be a thrill! super karts... wow...
     
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