430 Pricing for converted 430 coupe

I'm currently in the market for a manual 430 coupe (converted obviously) but having a hard time determining value. Seems ones that have sold recently on the auction sites either had high miles/rough shape, or super low mile collector grade. What would you consider a good deal on a well sorted converted car with around 15-20k miles?

 

I would value a converted F430 at the F1 price for a given example (year/mileage/condition/maintenance history) plus $10-$20k (say $15k on avg). This is assuming it was installed by a competent shop or DIYer that cared and had a functioning E-diff.

Before I purchased my 2005 F1 Coupe I was looking for a converted car. I found most sellers had no mechanical knowledge so figuring out remotely if a car had a functioning E-diff was harder than it would seem. Asking basic questions like what was the clutch wear prior to conversion (if a new clutch wasn’t done at the same time) wasn’t answered with more than a general “the clutch is good” more times than not. This may or may not matter to you, but to me it did so ultimately I just found a clean example F1 and am undergoing the conversion myself.

 

Thanks for the info. That was kind of my assumption too but all the ones listed are crazy in their asking prices. I would think a decent one would be selling for 130-140 max if we use your calculation of F1 price + 20k. Luckily most of the ones I've seen had new clutches as well as a host of other items replaced. Biggest problem was lack of miles after the conversion to actually make sure it's well sorted out.

 

I personally valued it at how much it would cost me to pay a shop to convert it, so $24k. But as Michael mentioned, with someone who knew how to convert it and I preferred the Cambio Manuale / Dr. S kit. Everything else I valued the same as if it was an F1 car.

 

EAG ones may be asking more because their costs to convert sometimes exceeded 30k. Also, it may depend on the underlying car/year/options/mileage. For example, I was looking at a well optioned 2008 with under 10k miles that was asking 150k as an F1. I think it sold for around 145k, but understandable given the condition, year and mileage.

 

Granted I'm asnwering this as a 360 owenr with a factory manual car... I could give 2 ****'s about a converted car. 1) how did it leave the factory? That is how I aspire the car to be before me. I've come to learn that every back alley shop, yoo-toober and now bankrupt outfit have been putting their cobbed products into these cars. I wouldn't personally pay maybe maybe 5 to 10k over an F1 example price for it. If it didn't come like thart from the factory.. I don't know what went into it. And I would adjust my price for it accordingly.

 

Yeah. I think it would have a lot to do with who did the conversion. With all the EAG drama and questionable warranty now, I’d much rather just find an F1 car in good shape and convert it using the kit of your choice with a shop you can go to if there are issues. Plus it will be a lot easier to find one with the specs you want.

 

+1

Plus you have all the parts removed to convert back if you want ..
@GogglesPisano great ..perfect suggestion.. love it

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

So, you’re validating that a converted car is more valuable to you than an unmolested example

 

All good points. And @vrsurgeon I agree, I would love for it to be a factory manual instead but at basically double the price, it has to be a converted or nothing at all. I'm unfortunately a hardheaded manual only fanboy.

 

The values of the converted cars have slowly drifted down to the F1 market among the informed buyers. I bought one 360F1 thinking I would convert it (myself) to a 6 speed, except that two things are keeping me back:

1) The implosion of EAG leaving the market with only 2 suppliers, and it is not a big market. I don't want to get stuck with a $15K bag of parts with no support and no way back to sanctuary.
2) I found myself enjoying the F1 experience quite a bit more than I thought I would (I have other gated cars to satisfy my gear rowing).

The people with more money to burn buy their F1 (including 360 CS) and send them to Issimi to do one-stop-shop conversions. I saw three in their shop last weekend. I bet those people don't care what their cars might sell for later on and so ... more power to them.

 

I'm of the age to remember when a Ferrari Daytona coupe was just a very desirable used car, not close to the status of collectibility it deservedly has now. It was a nice and somewhat affordable near-classic hovering in the $50-75k category. The spyder versions brought significantly more yet were nearly unobtainable.

An enterprising and talented coachbuilder on the west coast named Richard Straman noticed the price gap was much more than he could cut the roof off one and make it a spyder. Though others may have specific and differing opinions, the general consensus is that his rather expensive conversions were A) Done authentically with chassis reinforcements and various OEM details and B) Brought enough more at resale to justify the expense. Thus, many a 'Straman Conversion' was done.

Sadly, up popped the opportunistic ex-employees, copycats, and outright butchers who'd do it for less. And less. And well you can guess the market ripple effect eventually caused the "cut coupe" market to fall to - and even below - the factory coupe models.

Sometimes history repeats.

Yet your question is about enjoyment of an experience at a price that won't make it too nerve-wracking to simply use. And you probably have time to do that before this eventual price equalization sets in. The price differences quoted above, being south of what you'd pay to get one done, seem a reasonable premium to pay for something that is more to your liking than its auto-shfting sibling.

As an OEM manual shift 360 Modena owner, I can attest to the car's many charms and understand your looking in that direction. Pursue and enjoy!

 

History almost always ... rhymes, if not out right repeat.

 

Just adding my perspective...for what it is or isn't worth

As an owner that just did this conversion on my 430, i have to say that I am enjoying my car much more now. The fun from my prior cars is back. Its not the blistering 458 but a more powerful gated 6. I have more powerful cars and other manuals. However, the thrill for me is the metal clank and notch between gears that I was missing. My car is a well optioned car, but the conversion was done for my enjoyment but not for market sake.

If i were to sell it, I might like to see some of that expense returned, but not banking on it. It was done for me and what i wanted out of it. It feels as good as my 360 did but with a little more gusto. Overall I am happier with my car, I was integral to sorting it out and getting the work done. It was not an EAG disaster but a fun journey in my ownership.

 

If yours is the red one in your profile and you want to sell I know a guy... Haha.

I've gone back and forth between getting a factory gated 360 or a converted 430 since those are close enough in price and while I would of course prefer the one that hasn't been pulled apart and put back together, I think the more modern 430 speaks to me more. Not to mention the extra 100 HP doesn't hurt things.

 

The whole reason I went from my gated 360 to the 430 was the engine. It was about the extra power, but also the timing chains aspect. So i upgraded my headers and exhaust on the car. So I now have a really low maintenance car for my personal reasons. But thats just my thinking....

 

If I was in the market for a converted 430, I'd buy a high mileage F1 and convert it myself. With the dozens of different possibilities in the conversion process, you have no idea what you're going to be inheriting. Best inherit a mess of your own making than buy someone else's problem.

Besides, you can get a conversion system for a lot less now than it was when everyone had conversion fever.

 

That thought has crossed my mind as well. But then I re-watch the install videos by Normal Guy Supercar and it just seems like a ton of work.

 

So get a shop to do the work. At least then if something needs adjusting in the future, they're not trying to figure out what the previous guy might have done or what parts they cobbled together.

 

I used the DrS kit. It was a more simple procedure. Yes the car still gets taken apart, but i did the motor mounts, headers, and a full service. The other thing that was good is that the DrS kit was so easy on the electronic side. The e-Dif is still in place and working so the car runs just like it did before. The kit had everything I needed in it, so there were not any extra parts aside from the new clutch, and maybe $400 in misc parts from Hill engineering.

 

I think you have three categories valued in descending order*:

Factory Gated
OEM Converted
Non-OEM Converted

Within the Non-OEM converted group, I'd lay out a secondary ordering of Modena Lucerna, Dr S, EAG, and other.

I think that is a pretty objective framework (maybe one can re-order the non-OEMs for whatever reason).

My subjective opinion: I've been a pretty vocal dissident of EAG, so to me that is the lowest value and IMO below a clean F1 car because I just don't trust anything within that orbit. The other non-OEM kits I'd pay a very small premium over F1 + conversion costs to have an already completed car, ready to go, assuming the work was done and endorsed by a top specialist and I loved the spec. And for verified OEM conversions done by leading specialists, I'd place value well into the F1 and factory gated price-gap depending on the spec; a true OEM conversion is, to me, a highly desirable package as it is facsimile of factory gated, using the parts Ferrari designed and built for for that exact car. The OEM parts are impossible to find so add scarcity to that equation. Then add the Ferrari j"e ne sais quoi" correctness of the whole situation.

*Assuming Trevor is managing software across all conversions

 

@s2kmunpo if you are buying a converted car, make sure that you have a knowledgeable Ferrari mechanic inspect the car and confirm that the conversion is done properly using good quality parts. Alternatively for about $20,000 or a bit more you can get both a new kit and a professional installation, done to your requirements. And you keep the F1 parts - in case you ever want "originality" again, or in case you want to sell them for a few thousand dollars lowering the overall cost. Worth considering is that an older conversion or older original gated car may already need replacement parts - we have sold our conversion parts to go into original Ferrari factory gated cars which already had worn out components. (And we have sold our parts to owners who had other vendor gated conversion kits installed, just to fix those kits).

Also, how important to you is the price/colors/options/location/condition/history etc? With F1 cars you have much larger pool of cars to choose from, comparing to the converted cars.

In any case, luckily you can choose whatever works best for you.... maybe just looking for the "right" car regardless of the transmission, and if you find one already converted that's great, otherwise if that's F1 just convert it.

 

People stress too much about the conversion... It does not touch the gearbox (ok, we change the actuator, but shifting pattern does not change ) or engine, or anything else.... it's just basically putting in some cables, a clutch master, a shifter tower and some wiring done. If not done properly, you can always go and reroute the cables, re-adjust them, etc. As long as the part quality is there, like in Dr. S kit

 

how much value, if any, with using full OEM ferrari parts, will a stick add to a converted F1 car?

assuming modest miles of say 30k

of high miles say 60k

of crazy high miles like say 90k?

opinions appreciated, you cant hurt my feelings, so let you comments, rip

 

I don't think the miles really effect the value of the conversion. The cost goes down on the car around $1 per mile. So as the miles go up, the cost goes down. If a spec'd car in the market with 30k miles is going for $125k, then a similar spec with 60k miles would be under $100k. But the ratio is probably a parabolic curve as 35k is not effected as much as 45k miles.

So the conversion costs, 25+ is what you should expect. the kit costs, extra parts, and clutch will run you close to 18-20 and labor could be around 5-6k depending on the shop. So if the total cost to convert is 25-30 it might be fair to say the value is 20-25, but that is only a guess as the market really will dictate.

So, I think what you are asking here, is it better value to convert a high mileage car over a lower mileage. Only that you can buy a higher mileage car for less cost and allow to fund the conversion. But that is more about your financial commitment vs what the market will support. And we all know the market changes every month.

Hope that helps