Newey not a good idea

I don't think you'll find a better designer on the grid at the moment. Newey's track record speaks for itself so I think adding him to Ferrari would likely be a benefit.

I do not believe that Newey is the key to everything though. Like any chief designer or technical director, they need an elite team under them. There are some that believe every aero bit on the car came from Newey's head. That's just not true. He may have a general concept, but all the fine detail work is done by Red Bull's aerodynamics department. That is the case with all the departments. I don't think Ferrari's team is on the same level as Red Bulls at the moment, but I do think a lot of people would want to work with Newey and thus Ferrari could bring in new experts.

 

Mercedes had a PU that was perhaps 75+ hp above everyone else and rules in place to protect that advantage. Red Bull always had a solid chassis, but the Renault was underpowered. By 2018, they had the best chassis.

There is an argument that Rory Byrne is even better than Newey IMO. But again, he still had all aspects of the team doing premium work. When he stepped down to a supporting role, Ferrari were still building great cars.

Like I said, Newey isn't a one man show to having the best car. Though you can't dismiss his accomplishments and there is no reason why he wouldn't benefit any team he goes to.

 

they had Aldo Costa, who is arguably better.

 

+1

 

I tend to agree about Newey. Expectations among the tifosi would be so high that there would bound to be disappointments. I do think you’ve undersold Barnard a bit, though. I think his abrasive personality probably encouraged more professional criticism than he deserved.

 

It is now and has always been a Formula One TEAM. That said, Newey has designed more WDC winning cars and more WCC winning cars. To suggest he's not the best is silly. The only thing that matters is RESULTS.

And he did it through multiple eras.

 

I voted yes. It's important Ferrari get a headstart into the next regulations

 

Fully agree, I don’t understand why some Tifosis are doing « la fine bouche « about possible Newey hiring ..
Adding Newey to our team with Fred as a manager is a big plus.
And I don’t even talk about the fact he wouldn’t work for another team as a consequence..

 

It is absolutely a fair argument that Newey is the best all time. He very well might be. As mentioned, can't dismiss his long list of successful cars. However, Byrne's resume way too often gets overlooked. Look what he accomplished

1994 WDC with the inferior Ford power. Newey's Williams was still better. Had a high nose concept that Newey copied
1995 WCC now with Renault. Newey's Williams was arguably better.
1997 first proper Byrne design elements, though still on the 1996 foundation. Transforms the car to being the 2nd best and nearly wins the title.
1998 First full Byrne concept. Newey's first full McLaren which was the best car. However the Mercedes was the far better engine and the bridgestones were arguably better too. First para scope exhaust design that all the teams copied
1999 the F399 was the class of the field in race trim. WCC over Newey's McLaren
2000 WCC, but was equal to the McLaren
2001 WCC, easily the best car
2002 WCC one of the most dominant cars of all time
2003 WCC first to design the big undercut sidepods that all teams copied. Newey's MP4-18 was a complete fail.
2004 WCC one of the most dominant cars of all time.
2005 a much better car than it showed due to the Bridgestone tires lacking.
2006 Ferrari had the best car, nearly won the championship.
07-08 more Rory had an advisory roll and Ferrari won the WCC both years.

In the 13 years of direction competition with Newey, Byrnes cars won 7 WCC championships. 9 if you include 2007 and 2008. Newey's cars won 4. But like you said, its a TEAM effort and it is never down to just one guy. But if talking about results, Rory Byrne was an intricate part of Ferrari's domination. He even had a massive role in the 2022 Ferrari which was the fastest car for the first half of the season. It really dropped off when Mercedes had the FIA implement TD39

 

Can I recommend you buy the book The Perfect Car and read the crap that he had to put up with. Like any organisation, if the top management at Ferrari are and were incompetent, then you are on a loser. If anything it is fascinating to read the internal machinations within the team and his earlier career. You also have to realise he had no wind tunnel either!!!

The one snippet of info I liked most was when Schumacher drove the previous years car and told JB that he could have won the WDC with it, and lapped Fiorano quicker than Berger after a handful of laps, it was that good. Berger didnt like it and came nowhere!!

Best
Tony

+ he designed what has to be the best looking F! car EVER..........640

 

If nothing else Newey would be in infusion of energy and excitement to the TEAM - not to mention his knowledge, experience and results

 

The Hamilton acolytes never acknowledge this.

 

Never underestimate the potential resentment and resistance that can come with the arrival of an “outside expert,” especially one on whom has been conferred celebrity status….and most especially within an organization known for its insularity.

 

If Newey were to come to Ferrari, could they hire him in the car company to work on road cars and then lend his time somewhat to the race team? Would that put his salary outside the race team cost cap issues?

 

Teams are allowed a few people within the team to not go against the salary cap. This typically includes drivers, team principles and their highest paid designers/engineers.

 

I had internet in 1994 e-mail and academic paper searches, Google came later.

I remember, with glee, carrying out 5 e-mail "letters" each way per day.

 

Agree but to be fair 640 was a very competitive car only lacking because of its weakest( painful to say this..)V12 compared with the V10 Honda.

 

I would welcome Newey if he´s not coming as a godsend guru and is willing to work as technical director. Barnard was a half-hearted solution. If it´s the same with Newey (he acts as part time adviser or something like that) I wouldn´t expect a radical improvement.

 

Newey ain’t perfect but having him at the Scuderia is better than him going to another team.

 

Blaming Red Bull's previous ills entirely on Renault is unfair to the latter. No, Red Bull didn't have the best chassis in 18'. Ferrari and Red Bull were ahead of them in aerodynamics during the time as well. I'd argue by 19' RB had a car that was as balanced as the top two.

Newey has gotten it wrong before. When he was at Williams, Benneton beat his team. When he was at McLaren, Ferrari beat him. Hell, McLaren were able to win a title after his departure. Then there's the obvious Mercedes dominance he didn't have an answer for until 21'. Some of these things can be down to the PU, but other issues were Newey's team sometimes going too far in design ideas.

I also did get this idea that Ham's titles are less valuable simply because Mercedes had a power advantage. It's not as if Vettel and Max didn't have massive aerodynamic advantages in the cars they've driven.

IMHO, Ferrari should not chase Newey. He'll either likely retire or do consulting work for a British team. The current technical department at Ferrari has is doing great, and upsetting the progress with an outside Englishman would harm morale. Cardille is the best technical talent Ferrari have found since Costa, and they'd be wise to not let history repeat itself, and let him slip through their fingers.