Crashbox to synchronized conversion?

Out of curiosity has anyone changed out the guts of a crash box to a synchronized set of gearing? Is it possible to do and is there a “kit” to do it or would it be purely custom made for the application?

 

I have a Colotti dog-box (crash) for an Alfa GTAm, the outer casings are exactly the same, and you can install regular gears w. synchros.

To shift the Colotti, you learn on an old truck. Just the same, at least in my case.

Ignore if it can be done on a Ferrari, possibly the newer models.

Regards, Alberto

 

what please is a "crash box" or a "dog box"? a transaxle housing?

 

Non-syncromesh gears.

 

My understanding is that the early Ferrari transmissions were updated to use Porsche synchros. In drag racing synchro trans were changed to crash boxes. With enough money anything can be put in an early transmission case.

 

Thank you Dave. never heard this word before. is this word common for unsychronized gears?

 

Yes, for us it is, Romano.
it refers to the presence of synchronizers (synchromesh) or not (non-synchromesh).

 

I have not heard of anybody actually converting the internals of one of the old (166-212) gearboxes to synchromesh. However, there are firms that can adapt a Borg-Warner T5 five-speed gearbox to the car. I suspect this makes the car much easier and more pleasant to actually enjoy. The early gearboxes are difficult to master, while the later 250LM boxes are not bad at all, requiring double clutching on downshifts only.

 

I appreciate the info guys. I have two cars without synchros now and they’re fine for just me to drive, however I’m looking at buying a 50s Ferrari that would be used for rallies and I’m thinking about the logistics of having a co-driver using it that will not be adept at shifting properly without a synchronized transmission. I’d prefer to keep the existing gearbox and change internals, but perhaps it’s possible to just do a T5 or something along those lines. Just researching the possibilities now so I can make a decision on the car…

 

Jay Leno had his Maserati 3500 ZF 4 speed converted to a T-5. This required a custom bell housing that was fabricated by his in-house mechanic. There was a 5 speed ZF option in the day but parts are NLA.

Paul Cangialosi pioneered the T-5 conversion for classic Jaguars XK120 -XKE, & MKII, etc. 5Speeds Transmission Home Page

The other option for those who want to keep their old transmission but want to add and additional gear for overdrive is Restoration/Classic - Gearvendors
The Gearvendors is a modern version of the the Laycock de Normanville (LdN) overdrive. LdN Overdrive: The British invention that let the world’s drivers enjoy highways - Hagerty Media

 

[QUOTE="JAM1, post: 149689961, member: 13586"I’m looking at buying a 50s Ferrari that would be used for rallies and I’m thinking about the logistics of having a co-driver using it that will not be adept at shifting properly without a synchronized transmission. I’d prefer to keep the existing gearbox and change internals, but perhaps it’s possible to just do a T5 or something along those lines. Just researching the possibilities now so I can make a decision on the car…[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't it be easier/simpler to just choose a co-driver adept at shifting non-synchro transmission or educate those who aren't ?

 

Romano, perhaps a picture would be useful in understanding the term Crash Box

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Or perhaps an audio clip would explain the name.

 

Interesting that on track my upshifts and double clutch downshifts were usually neat and quiet. Not so much in street traffic.

Best regards,

Robert

 

Every dog box I have ever driven rewards you for driving aggressively and punishes you for driving conservatively

 

Joe, works just like a motorcycle transmission if you have ever worked on one of those.

 

We should make magazine writers study that picture. When I read road tests they are forever saying forward gears are constant mesh and reverse is non syncro. Or words to that effect.

Constant mesh is not synonymous with synchronized.

 

thank you robert for the photo. I know how a non sychronized gearbox is working, nothing new to me. but the name "crash box" was new for me. a box for me is only the housing and has nothing to do with a sycnronized or unsynchronized gearbox.

so good to learn here in this forum also some unusual words what you not can find in a translator

 

Double clutch belongs to us older types...Always do it, any car, never loose the habit
Shifting any box has to be an art. I love shifting my 2005 GTI without the clutch, up or down...
Once drove a busted clutch cylinder 1970 BMW '02, for 1K Km in Mexico all the way to Phoenix

Regards, Alberto

 

Brian, I agree but that photo is missing the first and second motion gear shafts. However the attached diagram would probably be above their understanding/comprehension level, but I color coded it to help.

Best regards,

Robert

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Colotti Alfa Romeo

 

This more like the one, albeit a BMW version, same contents.
It sounds like a 'rock crusher', definitely fast shifting is best.



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It was 50 years ago. My hippie chick gal friend and I were hitching hiking through Tennessee. She would stand out there with her dog. Those truckers were disappointed when I showed up from the shadows. One muther chucker told me I had to take over. He was running behind, but out of gas and crashing fast. He gave me a brief lesson and crawled into the cab and crashed. I was scared out of my mind. The realization you are pulling 40 tons is overwhelming. Did I crash a lot of gears? Is a bear Catholic? He finally woke up, and I pulled over. Oh, to be young and dumb.

 

That's funny ha ha.

 

In answer to the original question I think it would be very possible to design and build a new set of gears with synchronisers into the 166/212 casing.
The gears would probably need to be made narrower but using modern materials and gear tooth profiles they should be able to handle the torque.
How much time would you have for the project be completed?
If you want to keep using the car(s) in the meantime I know of a couple of spare gearboxes that could be converted.
If you can't find someone in USA to do the job we would be interested to assess it and assuming feasible do the job in UK.