Worrisome trend

I have noticed more and more brand new SF90s and even now SF90 Spiders popping up in various dealers. Although they won't be advertising them, I know of a few cars that "fell through" and were not picked up by the original ordering customer.

This does not bode well. Any thoughts?

Cheers...

 

they'll trickle them to the market or privately advertise them to customers, this happened here in the uk with the 296 after the first deliveries, lots of cars were availible at list or very slightly under

 

Yeah here’s a thought: Ferrari thought everyone would want a 1/3 price LaFerrari. But it’s not 1/3 price LaFerrari, it’s a 200% marked up F8 Tributo with a battery pack.

 

-1

 

So- this is Ferrari #6 for me; SF90 Stradale, Assetto Fiorano pkg, 2023 model with delivery miles sold as new from Ferrari Lake Forest (Great experience on each transaction). I haven't driven the car yet, but look forward to the new tech despite saying I'd never go this route. I did the Corsa Pilota both beginner and advanced back to back at Indy in 2021 driving the F8. I have to say that the F8 is 95% as capable as my Pista on the track. This SF90 has so much new technology, I can't wait to take advantage of. It's so much more than an F8 w/ battery pack- sorry Forza Scuderia, if you have real experience to relate, please provide.

 

LF and Cont two good dealers. SF90AF is baiting us - next will be all electric and watch us want that too! I hope not but they (Ferrari) knows their customers better than we know ourselves.

 

LOL

 

When YOU have some real experience, please provide. You forked over $600k for a car sitting on a lot without even driving it lol

 

Also, I’m not hating on the SF90, Ferrari just over priced it. It’s not special enough to find a plethora of takers at $700k with options. If it was a mid engine V12 then that price would work. Are you listening Ferrari? This is why its used prices are sinking faster than Biden’s reelection chances. There is nothing to prevent the prices from eventually bottoming out where all regular production high powered Ferraris do which is around $250k.

 

Prices depend a lot on the economics environment; nobody needs these cars, so there is no objective value. A bad environment will push all prices down, but some models resist better because they succeeded in acquiring some more legendary status (for whatever reason, good marketing, perceived historical significance or whatever).

 

We aren’t talking about macroeconomic impact here. I’m talking about relative depreciation. 458s that stickered for $320k 10 years ago are still selling for $250k. SF 90 has already depreciated by a higher percentage and I believe will keep dropping 10% a year until they hit the high 200’s to low 300’s.
Because it is dramatically overpriced for a regular production V8 regardless of bhp.

 

Must have struck a nerve there... Drove the SF90 during Pilota Corsa along with F8 and 812 in 2021. Driving the F8 after almost a week's time doing many laps per day as well as autocross and skidpad training, the first lap with the SF90 beat those laps by a wide margin. Didn't drive my personal SF90 prior to delivery due to weather in the Midwest. Agree totally on the rear mid V12 for the masses, but I don't feel that will present itself.

 

All credibility lost when one states that the SF90 is a F8 with an extra batterie.

 

Really?! ALL credibility lost? Lol

This is clearly how the market views it.

Ferrari product planners and marketing team persuaded early buyers to fork over extra $300k for the addition of battery assist onto an F8 Tributo motor.

When the Fiorano lap time bragging rights fairy dust wore off, buyers came to their senses and balked.

Brand new cars sitting on lots.

Used prices plummeting.

 

Ohh the sky is falling used car prices are plummeting, new cars are being offered as a buy one get one free with a Roma Spider!! LOL

Nothing you say is relevant to the design ethos of the SF90 and Ferrari's decision to build such car, you don't seem to have the ability to grasp the purpose of such vehicle, or the target market for high end exotics, at least based on your comments here which are all based around the value proposition and value retention not the capability/performance of the car, the way it drives, the way it makes you feel, etc and in order to reinforce your skewed views you downplay it's capabilities by comparing it with a clearly lesser model, when you do that, yes, all credibility lost.

I actually don't get your concern, I assume you don't own one, if you don't why are you stressing about it? Just get yourself a F8 and according to you you will end up with exactly the same car sans the big ass batterie and you saved yourself whatever amount of dollars you are so concerned about on behalf of the SF90 owners.

Now if the SF90 drops in value that much wouldn't you be happy to pick one up at the value of a F8? In that instance you should be happy, I actually do not understand what are you worried about unless you actually own a SF90 and now you are crying in your pudding because you are losing your shirt if that's the case comisurations.

As for the marketing team, that is the actual job of the marketing team, they put their product out, they market it and sell it. you should be adult enough not be be taken for a ride, anyway who's gullible enough to buy cars based on their Fiorano times, I don't even know what the laps times are for any of my cars and I love racing, I race and have race cars but I am adult enough to understand that lap times done by a pro driver in a controlled environment with a tuned car etc isn't replicable by a casual driver so why would you worry about them? Also a race car is MUCH cheaper than the street counterpart and a LOT faster on the track so once again, lap times of street cars irrelevant.

Now take the money/value equation out of it and look at the SF90 again without the value blinders on analyse it for exactly what it is because it is a phenomenal machine which delivers a tremendous amount of performance for an absolute bargain basement price, the SF90 if sub $1m it's an absolute bargain, end of story, go drive one, live with one and come and tell me otherwise.

 

458 for $250K, I guess that's really the top end of the market...
Anyway, personally I think the SF90 is not more overpriced than other Ferrari's, huge margins are the business model. On the other hand - and that's where it relates to macroeconomics - as Ferrari is now significantly increasing production, the supply, defined in a period of over-optimistic enthusiasm, may have exceeded the regular number of buyers for the price segment. As the environment changes, the second hand market realizes that the supply exceeds demand - and all the prices are dragged down, since even the people who would have accepted the price (and I think they still are there, so in that sense there would not be overpricing if the supply would have been more adapted to the enduring reality) adapt to the market conditions and reduce what they accept to pay.

 

You’re burning a lot of calories on this. As I said, I’m not hating on the SF90. The title of this thread is “Worrisome Trend.” And it’s about brand new SF90s sitting on dealers lots. I am just offering up a simple explanation as to why that is. Ferrari overpriced it. Great car but they overpriced it because they thought it’s bhp was all that matters. And that’s not all that matters. My posts on this subject are a warning to Ferrari to rethink their product pricing strategy on this type of model and also to potential buyers of used SF90 to caveat emptor and go into the transaction with eyes wide open that there is likely still steep depreciation ahead.

 

Fair enough, you raise some valid points. The car is formidable though and a great production version of the tech first introduced on the La Ferrari and well before the competition with production versions. Ferrari are doing something right anyway.

 

Glad someone said that. It’s either a mischievous, lazy or uninformed comment. F8 and SF90 feel and drive completely different. We’ve owned both. F8 doesn’t even feel like a Pista that has the same layout and drivetrain.

SF90’s weak residuals come from many customers’ general aversion to hybrid and batteries. New customers are braver than used ones so it’s predictable. However, as they become a more familiar used purchase and people realise how good they are, that will change. Rather than a LaFerrari at a third the price (did anyone really think that?!), they are better described as an Aventador competitor that drives well. Just because it has similar power, a faster lap time and probably better pace than a LaF doesn’t make it one. But it does have the same basic mid-engined, hybrid layout, same power and pace, so it certainly has sub-hypercar credentials. The more recently released Revuelto is a closer comparison than the older Aventador although the SF90 seems to be quicker and lighter than the Revuelto. I would guess that Ferrari’s software and chassis development is better too. No doubt Lambo fans will disagree and I haven’t driven the Revuelto so can only guess. Either way, the SF90 is a fantastic entry into the premium-super or sub-hyper segment that hasn’t -yet - got the recognition it deserves. I think it will though given a little time.

If there is a negative for the SF90 longer term it will be that it is a modern car in an age where things are changing. For example, we all hope the haptic controls get improved and the hybrid batteries are likely to improve. You could reasonably ask the question that it might fall between two eras. But think about this; the LaFerrari battery is 10 years older still and its HMI is the same as the 458. That is to say quite old, also falling between an analogue and more modern age and rather clunky compared to some of the newer cars. We just took delivery of a Roma Spider and already the HMI feels good, familiar, easy to use. Streets ahead of the 458…and the LaF. It has 95% the same system as the SF90, which I have criticised. They have refined it with a few small details and it works pretty well. Either that or I’ve become accustomed to it. On balance, the SF90 falling between two eras is less of a demerit than its replacement, were it to be fully electric, would feel like an advantage for the older car.

 

Are you actually @noone?

 

Completely agreed everything you said here. Don't waste your breath with another @noone who loved to stir up people when he never owned an exotic.

 

He’s definitely not @noone. You have forgotten just how insufferable he was. I, however, have not.

 

Those memories are definitely coming back now. Lol.

 

By the way, if you want to relive some of those memories, you can find him on the McLaren forum. He hasn’t changed. He’s yet to find a car that interests him enough to buy and he’s always willing to share his driving (non-driving) opinions.

 

Some people feel on top of the World being negative all the time I guess they need a hobby, glad mine is enjoying anything cars, and others sharing their real life experiences