Negative response to the 12 cilindri design

I think we have an illusion that everyone cares about sound, for me it’s a big part of the experience, but lots of people are fine with OEM sound !

 

I think the vast majority of automotive and racing enthusiasts still care about sound. Even little kids ask us to rev our engines! [emoji4]

I’m a Pista owner and the sound is so inferior to our 812 or even a 458 that I often think about selling it. Does anyone prefer modern F1 to the former eras with V12, V10, or even V8 engines?

 

Agree with @Bundy. Perhaps the average Joe doesn't care about sound. But I can't think of a single "car guy" in my circles who feels that way. Some care more than others, and not everyone cares that it's particularly loud. But it seems to be a big part of the experience for just about everyone.

 

I agree with all your saying ! I prefer former F1 eras you would be surprised how many could care less and buy cars just collect just my 2cents I and oh boy that 812gts with top down makes me like a kid again

 

Disagree a bit Ferrari's focus is to become the world's most valuable luxury brand. In order to be a valuable luxury brand, residual values do come into play, perhaps not across everything, but they are certainly a consideration. Hermes didn't become a top luxury brand because you can simply go get one of their highly sought after bags, there's a barrier to entry for new and pre-owned versions. Hermes bags have immense residual value, making people value them, see them as goals, or desires etc. In order for Ferrari to continue their mission to be the largest luxury brand, residual values have to play a key part in that. If not, we will see the Maserati effect, where the car lost 80% of its value and you start to see them everywhere. When things become common place they're not considered luxury anymore. Sure, not every car built can or should maintain a high residual value, but they still have to be mindful of their values. With that being said, digital displays can be done tastefully, and they can be done terribly. Not everything in the car needs to be a digital display. Designers making everything a "thrown in square" display is a design cop out in my opinion. Digital gauge clusters have been around forever, and the La Ferrari has a beautiful one, as does my 2017 Range Rover. With that being said, a little more time and thought process on the workflow and design of the integrated technology is an area that Ferrari really needs to spend time on. There's a fine balance on tech integration into vehicles and more and more consumers are starting to voice their opinions on too many screens, or too large of screens in new vehicle designs. As with everything, moderation is key ;-)

 

I belong to a generation in which, from a very young age, we learned to distinguish car brands/models by the sound of the engine. We didn't need to see them because as soon as we heard the car in the distance we promptly said is coming an Alfaromeo 1300 Junior, a Fiat 124 or 125, a Lancia Fulvia, a Datsun 240 Z, a Porsche 911, etc.
In the beginning of the 70's Ferraris were a rarity, but I still remember the first time I heard one live, when I was just 12 years old, and that sound has stayed with me to this day. In the late 80s and early 90s I had the privilege to follow many F1 practice days in the pits and so I will never forget the incredible sound of Jean Alesi and Ivan Capelli's V12 Ferraris and also from the Williams Renault's V10s.
When it comes to engine sound, the ear is something that we educate over time, so when Ferrari presents a new, more powerful V12 but reduces the decibels, to me is something unnatural.

 

None of this should be surprising when we consider current CEO:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedetto_Vigna

In prior life, he invented motion sensors used in Nintendo Wii consoles. Nuff said.

 

It 's the law!


Regarding screens, the purpose of an instrument panel is to convey information to the driver. It appears that a screen (and a HUD) is the best solution, as it is also configurable and can display numerous different pieces of information. Aeroplanes and boats have also embraced them. There is a reason for that.
Ditching physical switches in favour of touch screens is wrong though, as buttons are easier and safer to operate.

 

Kids and people ask me to rev the F8s all the time! I pretend not to hear them cuz what a disappointment that would be! In a year or so, my warranty is up and I’ll look into slapping on an exhaust. But if it throws codes, I’ll revert back to stock and sell it! Most likely trade it for a loud NA of some sort. I didn’t know how important sound would be to me but after 2yrs with the F8s, I’ve realized that for me it’s a non-negotiable.

 

Noted here a few times, I've got 50-60 miles over three F8 test drives and I was so disappointed by the sound that even liking the looks, it killed the experience of the drive. Even pushing it hard. When the order book was closing 3 years ago, I went back a few times to figure out if that's what I wanted... and it wasn't.

 

Totally agree on the info but it could be a combo. Keep the analog tach and surround it with better screens…evolve the layout of the 812 and f8. With that said, I am still ordering up the new stuff but would love some knobs and a bit of analog.

 

Ferrari does not have to spend too much bandwidth thinking about residuals if their cars are highly desirable as an overall value proposition. Large square screens are unavoidable now. Look at BMW and MERCEDES. With that being said, we all would still love knobs for stereo volume and air conditioning controls.

 

For those pining for analog tach and everything else screens, the problem is that even that looks old fashioned and behind the times now. As much as we all love analog tach, you need fully digital driver screens as well now or the car feels antiquated

 

They had it like this for years, but this layout imposes several restrictions. For example, not being able to have a racing style tacho for track use, or arrange the whole screen as one wishes.

 

I’ve been using a Roma Spider as a semi daily. It has a nice interior. The central screen is nicely positioned and convenient - much better than the arrangement on the SF90 where CarPlay removes the display completely. The Roma’s central screen means that Apple CarPlay doesn’t take out the whole instrument display. It’s really easy to switch between infotainment, car settings and apple nav etc. No hard switches can cope with the volume of features that modern cars use these days. You can say they are not needed but navigation, Spotify etc makes road trips much easier and more bearable. I wouldn’t go back except on something like an Icona.

In the case of the Roma, the screen is not the most modern but it won’t date too badly because it is fairly practical and purposeful. It takes a lot of the pressure off the haptic steering controls which try to do too much on the SF90. Will it get bettered? It already has been by other cars but that’s not the point. It forms part of a really very nice interior that is an excellent place to be and is full of beautiful materials and interesting design. The central screen in the 12C strikes me as a good idea. I’d rather have it than the SF90 no-screen solution but using the main instrument display instead.

Analogue dials are nice, the 992.1’s central rev counter is nicer than the 992.2’s digital one. But it’s not a deal breaker. And let’s not forget, there were some pretty average and comparatively unappealing analogue interiors that haven’t aged particularly well. 996, 360/430 plus others. They’re not terrible but also no reason to buy the car.

And as for the Pagani stuff, to me it’s off-putting. Too decorative more than functional. Not for me. (On the other hand, Tourbillon seems to have nailed it - not just stylish but purposeful and a great theme).

The 992 is a very nice balance between hard switches and usable tech, typical Porsche (usually), very well done. But the Ferrari interiors aren’t terrible. I liked the 12C interior when I sat in it. It’s a place I’d be very happy to spend a week in, 6 hours a day. Could it be better? I suppose. But I don’t feel like concluding it’s a reason not to buy the car. A predictable view from me I guess, but I never really celebrate going back to do something that is already done. I don’t like new for the sake of new, but I do want today’s cars to offer a new way of doing things with good purpose behind it. The navigation, infotainment plus many other features that are mandated on cars these days are better behind screens and the functions can be very useful. I remember that early Panamera with buttons everywhere. What a nonsense.

Ferrari interiors have never been the absolute best. They seem to sit today where they always have - a decent mix of sportiness, function and style without being a leader in any single area.

 

And herein lies the problem - Mediocrity at stupid pricing. If Ferrari wants to play with the new batch of brilliant cars (Revuelto, McLaren 750s, AM Valhalla to name a few) they do need to be the best. We have choice and Ferrari is only one of many these days. The days of being a die-hard Ferrari fanboy for me at least are over as too many other fantastic cars out there!!

 

The new Bugatti seems to be well received

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Yes totally agree. I really am not fond of cars that look powerful but sound lame or weak. Partly why I have a huge issue with a lot of modern turbo editions.

 

I didn’t really suggest mediocrity, just not being the best at any one element. For example, luxury and materials? That would be Bentley or Rolls. Functionality? Probably Porsche 992. Supercar outlandishness? Lamborghini. But the best mix of all of the elements may well be Ferrari. At least, they’re in the mix.

As for the price, it’s not the interior that justified the price on any Ferrari ever. So it’s no problem for people to be disappointed with an interior, just that to think this is a change from Ferraris of the past is probably not correct. Interior is not a valid reason to be disappointed with Ferrari’s current crop of models in my opinion. Weight and exterior design is a much fairer argument, even though I still fall on the side of enjoying the current direction since they mostly overcame weight with outstanding chassis development and used that extra weight to push the power envelope further than you could have really believed 10 years ago (we were all around 500+ hp then). I also like much of the styling direction and there have been some very notable designs since Manzoni’s arrival - LaFerrari, SP 1, 2 and 3, Pista, Speciale, 812 Competizione, even the Roma Spider I mentioned, which is a very beautifully designed car. His weaker designs are Portofino, Cali T plus he has also did designs I personally like but which are more controversial; 296 and SF90 especially. It’s too early for me to say which category the 12C is in, but I already know I would not put it among the designs of his I dislike.

 

Do you think a racing style Tacho makes you quicker on the track?

 

Makes me less slow, by reading it quicker.

 

Member @Traveller said years ago that “sound equals energy”… and I would add that energy = emotion. So when you hear a good sounding car, you understand its power, or its potential. And that is something at will grab your mind: I wonder what it would be like to drive THAT!

And then you look at the car, or look more at it… and if it’s at least a nice design, you keep wondering… if its terrible, you might say, oh its just not for me….

Anyway on to interiors, for me at least, Ferraris are about the engine. So the sound comes into it. And then the interior, when it has a fixed visible tach, tells me: the focus is the engine. It’s an instant reaction. When it’s a blank screen, my mind says, well, gee, the focus could be anything. Even though I know it’s a Ferrari and it will be about the engine. I don’t mind using the new interface very much, I think it has its pros and cons, but I do wish they would have a physical tach- the reality is, any car with an “electronic” tach is really not analog- at least in my book. It’s an analog representation of what’s happening. Real analog would be the tach needle being connected directly via a cable and bouncing around.

To me the 458/F12 generation interiors had the right mix of tech and what I’d call Italian warmth. But I am just one person, and time marches on. The challenge every car designer faces is they begin a design process years in advance, and they have to design these cars not just for the day they are revealed, but for years into the future. Extra so for Ferrari, which has to consider how these cars will be in the long term of the Ferrari family. Time will tell how these new interiors age. For now I will just say when Im driving the SF90 I am finding it to be a wonderful place to be and the use of the interface is really no problem. It’s just different.


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I don’t race but always figured the drivers could tell rpm by feel and sound. I rarely look at the tach to know when to shift in cars I’m familiar with.

Besides, isn’t that what shift lights are for?




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In F1 and other top racing series, the drivers hear a loud beep in their earpieces, when they need to upshift. Imagine if that happened in road Ferraris (some cars have that beep). If we were to believe fchat, we would still be stuck in 1950s Veglias...

 

Bingo. I spent the week in an f4 car at Sonoma and the last thing I was doing (outside of straights) was trying to read anything off my wheel. It was all about the lights. I get the arguments in both sides but I don’t think Ferrari has done this for track reasons. It’s about configurability and modern tech. On the positive side, we can change the color of the tach to suit our mood…I can’t do that on my other f cars