348 Starter Relay Modification

vinny · Jul 4, 2017

Miltonian said: ↑

Over the years I have fielded questions from several 348 owners whose starters have failed to engage when the key is turned. When my own 348 exhibited this problem a few years ago, I installed a back-up pushbutton to engage the starter, but I always intended to do a "proper" fix some day. Here is what I did this afternoon.

I purchased a Bosch relay, 30amps, normally open, with a built-in mounting tab. It was about $15 at an auto electric supply store. This particular relay is a Bosch 0332 019 155. The purpose of the relay is to take the weak voltage from the ignition switch and use it to close the relay contacts, sending full battery voltage to the starter solenoid. Using four terminals on the relay, you connect as follows:
Terminal 30 - Battery positive voltage supply
Terminal 85 - Power from the ignition switch starting position
Terminal 86 - Ground
Terminal 87 - Power out to starter solenoid
The terminals are marked and diagrammed on the relay housing.

There is a perfect location for this, behind the interior fuse panel! If you look at the first picture, you can see the arrangement. Full battery voltage is right there at the "buss bar" in the upper left. There is a "common ground" recepticle at the lower right. And the wire from the ignition switch is on the back of the fuse panel. Access isn't easy in the tight space, but it can be managed.

First, I had to identify the wire from the ignition switch, with help from the wiring diagram. In my case, it was the white wire, 4th from the left, in terminal block D (black). This can be verified using a voltmeter or a test light. This wire SHOULD be carrying full battery voltage when the key is turned to the start position, but my voltmeter showed less than 10 volts here - no wonder the starter wouldn't turn on the key! I snipped this wire and ran it to terminal 85 on the new relay. Bypassing the fuse panel, I snipped the white wire directly behind the first wire, in terminal block A (yellow), 4th from the left, and connected it to terminal 87 on the new relay. This circuit runs straight through the fuse panel without a connection to any fuse or relay, according to the diagram. It was fairly easy to make and hook up new wires from the buss bar (either side) to relay terminal 30, and from the common ground to relay terminal 86.

Once the wires were all hooked up and tested, I attached the relay to the side of the buss bar housing using one of the available mounting studs and its nut - no holes drilled! This modification is completely out of sight, in a dry, protected area, and has no effect on any of the other electrical circuits in the car - and it's entirely reversable. So far it's working great!

Of course, before doing a mod like this, you need to verify that your battery is OK, that the cables and connectors are clean and tight. Installing a relay will not help if your starter itself is worn out. But if you have the typical problem with a voltage drop through the ignition switch, this will help at least temporarily unless the switch burns out entirely.

I accomplished this job in about 90 minutes on my first attempt, and I imagine I could pare it down to less than an hour.

I wouldn't recommend a job like this to anyone who is not comfortable working with the wiring on his car - it's not difficult, but it's not "Wiring 101" either.
Click to expand...

Btw,Great thread! I will check my wiring for voltage drop

gar348 · Aug 24, 2018

348Jeff said: ↑

Few pics of fitting... BTW Ive got to tidy my wiring up - it was just to make sure it worked!
View attachment 1768091
View attachment 1768092
View attachment 1768093
View attachment 1768094
View attachment 1768095
View attachment 1768096
Click to expand...

Hello Jeff- I realize that your post was from 2013 but hopefully you are still on FC. So you posted questions regarding the instructions in the WR1 kit vs. the wiring of a 348 but no one ever responded with answers. It looks like you went ahead and connected the kit per the instructions (as shown in the pictures) but you never commented on whether or not it worked. I sure as hell don't want to fry anything in my car!

348Jeff · Aug 25, 2018

gar348 said: ↑

Hello Jeff- I realize that your post was from 2013 but hopefully you are still on FC. So you posted questions regarding the instructions in the WR1 kit vs. the wiring of a 348 but no one ever responded with answers. It looks like you went ahead and connected the kit per the instructions (as shown in the pictures) but you never commented on whether or not it worked. I sure as hell don't want to fry anything in my car!
Click to expand...

Since fitting the relay it's never failed to start - not even once (I would get the problem quite regularly especially in hot weather) so its definitely cured it for me

gar348 · Aug 25, 2018

348Jeff said: ↑

Since fitting the relay it's never failed to start - not even once (I would get the problem quite regularly especially in hot weather) so its definitely cured it for me
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Jeff! My problem is that it won't start when the car is hot. I live in Arizona and this time of years it's over 100 outside and over 120 in my garage. The car will always start fine when it's cold but if I drive it long enough for it to heat up (10 miles or so), then shut it off, all I get is a "click" when I turn the key but the starter doesn't engage or turn. If it's not too hot I can get it to crank over and start if I turn the ignition switch on and off several times. Eventually it will turn crank and start. But if it's good and warmed up it won't crank until it has sat and cooled off for 20 minutes or so. So, I hoping that this relay will fix that.
OK- I'll follow your instructions and pictures and hope that it works! Looks pretty simple..

348Jeff · Aug 25, 2018

gar348 said: ↑

Thanks for the reply Jeff! My problem is that it won't start when the car is hot. I live in Arizona and this time of years it's over 100 outside and over 120 in my garage. The car will always start fine when it's cold but if I drive it long enough for it to heat up (10 miles or so), then shut it off, all I get is a "click" when I turn the key but the starter doesn't engage or turn. If it's not too hot I can get it to crank over and start if I turn the ignition switch on and off several times. Eventually it will turn crank and start. But if it's good and warmed up it won't crank until it has sat and cooled off for 20 minutes or so. So, I hoping that this relay will fix that.
OK- I'll follow your instructions and pictures and hope that it works! Looks pretty simple..
Click to expand...

I would certainly give it a go as it's very inexpensive to do, easily DIYable and appears to be quite a common fault

gar348 · Aug 26, 2018

348Jeff said: ↑

Since fitting the relay it's never failed to start - not even once (I would get the problem quite regularly especially in hot weather) so its definitely cured it for me
Click to expand...

I installed the WR1 kit per the instructions and pictures that you posted and it works great! I took it for a 1/2 hour so run out thru the desert to a nearby town at an outside temp of around 105. On the way back I was coasting down a bit of hill leading back into my town and I therefore knew that I could do a "pop the clutch" start if I had to, so I shut off the engine.. waiting a few seconds.. and turned the key and it started!! I then tried it a couple more times and it every time it cranked over beautifully and started! I pulled into the grocery store and pulled in a parking spot (outer fringe of the lot of course).. shut it off... waited a few seconds.. turned the key and it cranked and started! I went in a grabbed a few groceries and when I came out.. it cranked and started again! This NEVER would happen prior to the installation of the solenoid. What a relief to be able to stop somewhere and have it start again when I come out! Thank you Miltonian, Jeff, and all those who posted here. This problem has been plaguing me for several years now and it was solved for $35 and 1/2 hour installation time!!

348Jeff · Aug 27, 2018

Thats's a great result

The only thing about driving a Ferrari is that you ever break down etc you get absolutely ZERO sympathay!!!! LOL :-(

ernie · Aug 28, 2018

So very, very, true.

I once had the idiotic battery bullet connector, under the air box, come lose and cause the car to stop running. This was when I first had the car and didn't know what to look for. Anyway, I was stuck on a freeway off ramp and had a few people roll down thier windows, point at me, and laugh. I though that was funny because I would have done the exact same thing. Even had a trucker blow his horn at me. Bastards! LOL!!!

taz355 · Aug 29, 2018

Yup been there done that.
My F1 pump was getting worn had to drive back home in 4 th not an easy task timing lights etc without having to stop on busy streets.
Had to stop at gate (gated community) gate was down and car stuck in gear.
Asked for some water (they thought it was for me im sure) poured it on the pump, put in neutral, started and drove home.
Mweanwhile others at gate were giving me the laughs and nod

steved033 · Sep 1, 2018

I built my relay tonight, and should have it installed in the morning.

Great thread!

sjd

steved033 · Sep 3, 2018

This might be the single most useful mod for driven cars. It starts so easy now.

When I buy the next one, this will be the first thing I do whether it needs it or not. Mostly, because it needs it.

sjd

Jakuzzi · Aug 10, 2019

Miltonian said: ↑

Over the years I have fielded questions from several 348 owners whose starters have failed to engage when the key is turned. When my own 348 exhibited this problem a few years ago, I installed a back-up pushbutton to engage the starter, but I always intended to do a "proper" fix some day. Here is what I did this afternoon.

I purchased a Bosch relay, 30amps, normally open, with a built-in mounting tab. It was about $15 at an auto electric supply store. This particular relay is a Bosch 0332 019 155. The purpose of the relay is to take the weak voltage from the ignition switch and use it to close the relay contacts, sending full battery voltage to the starter solenoid. Using four terminals on the relay, you connect as follows:
Terminal 30 - Battery positive voltage supply
Terminal 85 - Power from the ignition switch starting position
Terminal 86 - Ground
Terminal 87 - Power out to starter solenoid
The terminals are marked and diagrammed on the relay housing.

There is a perfect location for this, behind the interior fuse panel! If you look at the first picture, you can see the arrangement. Full battery voltage is right there at the "buss bar" in the upper left. There is a "common ground" recepticle at the lower right. And the wire from the ignition switch is on the back of the fuse panel. Access isn't easy in the tight space, but it can be managed.

First, I had to identify the wire from the ignition switch, with help from the wiring diagram. In my case, it was the white wire, 4th from the left, in terminal block D (black). This can be verified using a voltmeter or a test light. This wire SHOULD be carrying full battery voltage when the key is turned to the start position, but my voltmeter showed less than 10 volts here - no wonder the starter wouldn't turn on the key! I snipped this wire and ran it to terminal 85 on the new relay. Bypassing the fuse panel, I snipped the white wire directly behind the first wire, in terminal block A (yellow), 4th from the left, and connected it to terminal 87 on the new relay. This circuit runs straight through the fuse panel without a connection to any fuse or relay, according to the diagram. It was fairly easy to make and hook up new wires from the buss bar (either side) to relay terminal 30, and from the common ground to relay terminal 86.

Once the wires were all hooked up and tested, I attached the relay to the side of the buss bar housing using one of the available mounting studs and its nut - no holes drilled! This modification is completely out of sight, in a dry, protected area, and has no effect on any of the other electrical circuits in the car - and it's entirely reversable. So far it's working great!

Of course, before doing a mod like this, you need to verify that your battery is OK, that the cables and connectors are clean and tight. Installing a relay will not help if your starter itself is worn out. But if you have the typical problem with a voltage drop through the ignition switch, this will help at least temporarily unless the switch burns out entirely.

I accomplished this job in about 90 minutes on my first attempt, and I imagine I could pare it down to less than an hour.

I wouldn't recommend a job like this to anyone who is not comfortable working with the wiring on his car - it's not difficult, but it's not "Wiring 101" either.
View attachment 754284
View attachment 754285
View attachment 754286
Click to expand...

Very helpful still 11 years later. Thanks!

pmeert · Nov 11, 2020

Very helpful still 12 years later. Followed it step by step and works like a dream. Thanx!

Miltonian said: ↑

Over the years I have fielded questions from several 348 owners whose starters have failed to engage when the key is turned. When my own 348 exhibited this problem a few years ago, I installed a back-up pushbutton to engage the starter, but I always intended to do a "proper" fix some day. Here is what I did this afternoon.

I purchased a Bosch relay, 30amps, normally open, with a built-in mounting tab. It was about $15 at an auto electric supply store. This particular relay is a Bosch 0332 019 155. The purpose of the relay is to take the weak voltage from the ignition switch and use it to close the relay contacts, sending full battery voltage to the starter solenoid. Using four terminals on the relay, you connect as follows:
Terminal 30 - Battery positive voltage supply
Terminal 85 - Power from the ignition switch starting position
Terminal 86 - Ground
Terminal 87 - Power out to starter solenoid
The terminals are marked and diagrammed on the relay housing.

There is a perfect location for this, behind the interior fuse panel! If you look at the first picture, you can see the arrangement. Full battery voltage is right there at the "buss bar" in the upper left. There is a "common ground" recepticle at the lower right. And the wire from the ignition switch is on the back of the fuse panel. Access isn't easy in the tight space, but it can be managed.

First, I had to identify the wire from the ignition switch, with help from the wiring diagram. In my case, it was the white wire, 4th from the left, in terminal block D (black). This can be verified using a voltmeter or a test light. This wire SHOULD be carrying full battery voltage when the key is turned to the start position, but my voltmeter showed less than 10 volts here - no wonder the starter wouldn't turn on the key! I snipped this wire and ran it to terminal 85 on the new relay. Bypassing the fuse panel, I snipped the white wire directly behind the first wire, in terminal block A (yellow), 4th from the left, and connected it to terminal 87 on the new relay. This circuit runs straight through the fuse panel without a connection to any fuse or relay, according to the diagram. It was fairly easy to make and hook up new wires from the buss bar (either side) to relay terminal 30, and from the common ground to relay terminal 86.

Once the wires were all hooked up and tested, I attached the relay to the side of the buss bar housing using one of the available mounting studs and its nut - no holes drilled! This modification is completely out of sight, in a dry, protected area, and has no effect on any of the other electrical circuits in the car - and it's entirely reversable. So far it's working great!

Of course, before doing a mod like this, you need to verify that your battery is OK, that the cables and connectors are clean and tight. Installing a relay will not help if your starter itself is worn out. But if you have the typical problem with a voltage drop through the ignition switch, this will help at least temporarily unless the switch burns out entirely.

I accomplished this job in about 90 minutes on my first attempt, and I imagine I could pare it down to less than an hour.

I wouldn't recommend a job like this to anyone who is not comfortable working with the wiring on his car - it's not difficult, but it's not "Wiring 101" either.
View attachment 754284
View attachment 754285
View attachment 754286
Click to expand...

solana_sc · May 12, 2022

pmeert said: ↑

Very helpful still 12 years later. Followed it step by step and works like a dream. Thanx!
Click to expand...

Still very helpful after 14 years! Works great. Thanks again!

DASV8 · May 13, 2022

Well add me to the list. Got my car end of November, drove it 3 times and put away for the winter. Woke her up, changed the oil, airbox filter, fixed the broken battery connector and failing hood struts and went to fire her up and just a click when I tried to turn engine over. First time that happened and of course I had just been all over the engine bay. Went back and verified battery, all positive and grounds on the engine and found this thread last night. Was getting 12V at the solenoid signal connector on crank and 12V at the starter +B terminal but still no start. Jumped the solenoid terminal to the starter +B and she fired right up. Relay mod ASAP for me.

FloridaIsland348 · Dec 9, 2022

The F-car would not start today, and once again the brotherhood got me back on the road. After researching everything solenoid related I was able to slowly eliminate issues starting with the battery, terminals, those crazy power connectors, rocked the car in gear and tapped the solenoid with a hammer. Then got to this thread and realized I already had this relay installed. Finally I got to a loose connection from the relay to the ignition terminal on the started solenoid. Cleaned it, 22ed it, and re-crimped. Friday night has been saved.
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seabass23 · Jun 14, 2023

I'm capturing this here as an alert to anyone with a CANADIAN spec 348. I installed this relay and had issues with my daytime running lights and, most critically, my brakes!

Miro explains the issue that I encountered here in great detail (Post 59): Brake Pump Runs before startup but won't run AFTER startup!

This should ONLY affect Canadian-spec cars since they were modified by factory with two additional relays related to the DRLs. The two relays were added in an auxiliary holder and attached to the panel in the front trunk. If you have these relays, be informed before attempting this modification.

Miro also provides us Canadians with a solution so that the starter relay modification can still be achieved! He recommends using a motorcycle relay instead of the cube-style automotive relay (I have not tested this yet).

m.stojanovic · Jun 14, 2023

seabass23 said: ↑

...He recommends using a motorcycle relay instead of the cube-style automotive relay (I have not tested this yet).
Click to expand...

Just to add: motorcycle starter relay.

ClydeM · Jul 17, 2024

Every time my 355 started giving me starting trouble, I'd rebuild it with the plunger assembly. It would frequently be heavily pitted.
This last time was too quick and I know its not the plunger.
So I tracked down the Bosch WR1 kit. It's not readily available anymore. I'll wire one I found & let folks now if this solves my problem.
Thanks for the thread & pics!

as to being stuck..yah, a couple years ago on my way to some event on Long Island I got stuck in bumper to bumper traffic and turned the car off to wait it out rather than watch the coolant temps soar.
The traffic started to move and I couldn't even get a click out of her. I did push/roll her to the shoulder and called the state towing (can't get just anybody on some roads in NY. Gotta be authorized) and yes, a number of cars rolled down their windows, pointed, snickered, laughed and commented. To the guy in the F150 - at least mine isn't a rust bucket & doesn't rust at traffic lights!

m.stojanovic · Jul 18, 2024

ClydeM said: ↑

So I tracked down the Bosch WR1 kit. It's not readily available anymore. I'll wire one I found & let folks now if this solves my problem.
Click to expand...

Using a standard automotive cube relay as a starter relay won't work on the 355, i.e. it will cause problem with the ABS relay and may also cause the starter motor to continue running after the engine has started and the key released from START position. You can search the forum and read about this issue.

You should use a motorcycle starter relay or a snowmobile starter relay. One example (snowmobile): https://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-SOLENOID-RELAY-FITS-POLARIS-SNOWMOBILE-TRAIL-RMK-2004-2009-2010/291331195789?epid=2099844650&hash=item43d4b1438d:gFwAAOSwnDxUlKUl&vxp=mtr or https://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-RELAY-SOLENOID-FOR-YAMAHA-SNOWMOBILE-SNOSCOOT-80-SV80-1988-1989-1990/261783982263?epid=858959600&hash=item3cf38a90b7:g:XwcAAOSwv0tU5VRz&vxp=mtr or https://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-RELAY-FITS-SKI-DOO-SNOWMOBILE-EXPEDITION-LEGEND-SKANDIC-712918880/222756801193?hash=item33dd570aa9:g:KYQAAOSwSKtaYSg4&vxp=mtr

Examples of motorcycle or small engine starter relays:

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ClydeM · Jul 18, 2024

Mine is a 2.7 355. I would have thought not so unlike the 348s that have been fixed.

I'll look for the other issues you report, though. thx.

ARN348 · Sep 14, 2024

Thanks all- 20 years+ later, the Bosch kit still does miracles. Just installed it today on my 348 as the starter refused to engage. It took me 30min to install and test and 45min to properly organise the cables in a clean way. It works perfectly. I installed the kit directly at the starter.

steved033 · Sep 14, 2024

ARN348 said: ↑

Thanks all- 20 years+ later, the Bosch kit still does miracles. Just installed it today on my 348 as the starter refused to engage. It took me 30min to install and test and 45min to properly organise the cables in a clean way. It works perfectly. I installed the kit directly at the starter.
Click to expand...

Awesome!! Congrats! Welcome to reliable starts!

Qavion · Sep 14, 2024

m.stojanovic said: ↑

Using a standard automotive cube relay as a starter relay won't work on the 355, i.e. it will cause problem with the ABS relay and may also cause the starter motor to continue running after the engine has started and the key released from START position. You can search the forum and read about this issue.
Click to expand...

* on 355’s with Teves brakes. It’s fine on 355’s with Bosch brakes (apparently). All F1 cars have cube relays. The F1 system controls start via these type relays.

FloridaIsland348 · Sep 14, 2024

ARN348 said: ↑

Thanks all- 20 years+ later, the Bosch kit still does miracles. Just installed it today on my 348 as the starter refused to engage. It took me 30min to install and test and 45min to properly organise the cables in a clean way. It works perfectly. I installed the kit directly at the starter.
Click to expand...

Glad it worked!
I’ve added two start buttons that have been real useful. The one at the air box is a marine grade switch that is super easy to install into the relay system and looks factory. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

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348 Starter Relay Modification

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